"F-22's for sale, get'em while they're got!"

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Air Force Plans to Sell F-22As to Allies

InsideDefense.com NewsStand | John T. Bennett | February 17, 2006

Momentum is building within the Air Force to sell the service's prized F-22A Raptor -- which is loaded with super-secret systems -- to trusted U.S. allies, with Japan viewed as the most likely buyer, service and industry officials tell Inside the Air Force.

A Lockheed Martin official heavily involved in the Raptor program told ITAF Feb. 14 that a proposal to alter course and sell the Raptor to Japan is working its way through the Air Force. Lockheed is leading development and production work on the service's newest fighter.

“Right now, [the proposal] is at the three- or four-star level” within the Air Force, the Lockheed official said. “It's not at the highest levels yet . . . to the people who really count -- but it's getting there.”

Several service officials, including a key four-star command chief, that have spoken with ITAF also have confirmed that the notion of selling a yet-undetermined number of Raptors to the Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) is indeed picking up steam among blue-suited military and civilian decision-makers.

Air Combat Command chief Gen. Ronald Keys told ITAF Feb. 2 after his remarks at a conference in Lake Buena Vista, FL, that service officials are debating the notion of putting the F-22A on the international market. Several service officials, who all requested anonymity, have since said the proposal is gaining strength and working its way through the Air Force's cumbersome bureaucracy.

The revived proposal comes as Lockheed has seen the Air Force dramatically scale back its F-22A program. The service initially intended to purchase 381 fighters, but has since scaled that figure back to just over 180. Overseas sales would help the defense giant swell its shrinking F-22A bottom line.

Several industry officials employed by companies partnering with Lockheed on the multibillion-dollar fighter program contacted by ITAF over the past two weeks also confirmed the notion is picking up steam within the air service.

“I'd say there is definitely a renewed interest to develop an international variant” of the F-22A, a Boeing official told ITAF Feb. 2 at the same Florida conference. Boeing is under contract to develop several Raptor components, including its wings, aft-fuselage and avionics systems, according to a company fact sheet. Boeing also is responsible for 70 percent of the F-22A's mission software as well as other components, the fact sheet states.

Defense officials and military analysts, including Loren Thompson of the Washington-based Lexington Institute, contacted this week all agreed Japan is atop what appears at first glance to be a short list of possible Raptor suitors.

Why would there be so few nations in line to buy what is touted by U.S. officials as the most capable fighter jet in history? Sources pointed to several reasons.

First, a list of the Pentagon's most trusted partners already are heavily invested in the Joint Strike Fighter program, having sunk millions into development work and are preparing to spend a large amount of their respective defense budgets on their own F-35 fleets. And second, China and an increasingly stubborn Russia are pegged by strategic military and political thinkers as the only two nations capable of mounting an air-to-air threat against the American military and its allies. Several analysts said that would mean having an extra squadron or two of the F-22As permanently “bedded down” in the region makes strategic sense for the Pentagon.

A Japanese defense official said Feb. 14 that the Asian nation is very interested in purchasing the F-22A as a replacement for its F-4 aircraft, and confirmed the JASDF has contacted both Raptor-maker Lockheed Martin and the Air Force about buying the fighter.

The Japan Air Self-Defense Force currently has four fighter jet models in its fleet -- F-15s, F-4 interceptors, F-2s and F-1s. The JASDF introduced the F-4s in 1973 and has indicated it will begin retiring them some time next decade.

At press time (Feb. 16), the Air Force had not responded to several requests for comment submitted by a reporter over the past two weeks.

The controversial proposal would need the approval of top officials at the Defense and State departments as well as on Capitol Hill. A collective decision to export the fighter would require a change of mind from the Pentagon, Foggy Bottom and Capitol Hill.

Each Washington entity has for years resisted exporting the Raptor -- even to the coziest of U.S. allies -- based on fears some of the F-22A's most-advanced systems could “migrate” to potential adversaries, especially China. The Asian giant is viewed by many Pentagon officials and military scholars as the most likely nation that could take on the U.S. military in a 20th century-style conventional war.

Air Force officials and military analysts said before the U.S. would agree to export the Raptor to Japan, officials there would have to agree to stipulations that F-22A technologies would not be resold to other nations.

“It's hard to envision the F-22A with its current capabilities being exported, even to our closest allies. Its capabilities would almost certainly have to be ‘watered down' for export,” according to Christopher Bolkcom, an analyst at the Congressional Research Service in Washington.

“Would such an aircraft be attractive to foreign countries? Probably. Would it be priced affordably? That is more difficult to predict,” Bolkcom told ITAF Feb. 14. “Technology transfer will likely be a critical issue” that U.S. policy-makers would have to iron out, he added.

Officials could potentially use another high-profile fighter program as a guide, if they opt to move forward with a plan to put the F-22A on the market, the CRS analyst said. “If the JSF program is able to resolve its technology transfer issues, DOD may have a model -- or at least a precedent -- for the F-22A to follow,” Bolkcom concluded.

Though the F-22A is one of the Pentagon's most-valued -- and most costly -- weapon programs, existing laws place the State Department in charge of approving any sales of U.S. defense systems to other nations, defense officials and analysts were quick to point out this week.

To that end, Lockheed, according to the company official, is merely “waiting for the Air Force and State Department to tell us what to do.”

Meanwhile, the Japanese defense official declined to disclose the list of requirements the JASDF would slap on its potential F-22A fleet. The Lockheed official, however, noted the kinds of missions the self-defense minded Japanese air force would assign its Raptors would differ from the tasks that have been prescribed for U.S. F-22A squadrons.

Because a potential Japanese Raptor force would be focused on patrolling its native skies -- as opposed to waging combat operations in far-away and hostile territories like the U.S. models -- the JASDF could well opt to leave many of the air-to-ground capability upgrades planned for future U.S. models off their fleet, the Lockheed official said.

But overall, the company official said, if U.S. officials clear the way, Lockheed expects to sell Japan a Raptor that is “not that different” from the war planes that will fly with U.S. Air Force markings. “I wouldn't expect a dramatic change” to the fighter's closely held futuristic systems, the Lockheed source said.

As the proposal makes its way through the Pentagon and around Washington, U.S. officials are likely to engage in talks about the implications of putting the intricacies of three of the fighter's most-advanced systems in the hands of another nation -- even a close U.S. strategic partner like Japan, defense observers say.

Thompson of the Lexington Institute said Feb. 14 that defense and State officials, and lawmakers in Congress, are likely to remain hesitant to export three key F-22A systems: its electronic architecture; “aspects of its low-observable” technologies; and its next-generation data links, such as the Tactical Targeting Networking Technology waveform system.

Additionally, another defense analyst who closely follows Air Force programs pinpointed the fighter's electronic attack, and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) systems. In recent months, Air Force officials have stepped up their efforts to publicly tout the war plane's ISR capabilities.

It was not immediately clear how Japan would tailor its Raptor requirements, or how much a JASDF-specific F-22A might cost.

The Air Force's “fly away cost” per Raptor is about $130 million, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley told reporters following a Pentagon roundtable late last year. Asked how much the Japanese -- or any allied nation interested in buying the fighter -- likely would have to pay for each jet, the Lockheed official said the company “has shown the Japanese the same kind of [per-aircraft cost] numbers Moseley threw out.”

The Japanese defense official told ITAF Feb. 15 that the JASDF plans to send an official to the United States later this year to discuss its fighter-replacement effort -- and the possibility of buying the F-22A -- with U.S. officials. “So, this year is the most important year for JASDF.”

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,88282,00.html

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24 years 2 months

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Interesting. Definitely interesting. Just keep them away from Israel.

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24 years 2 months

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Jpana would be an excellent buyer.

Apart from that I agree with SOC.

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24 years 2 months

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Just keep them away from Israel.

I haven't paid much attention to Israeli trade relations, but I've noticed that it appears to be one hot potato. Care to provide a brief explanation? Does it have something to do with China etc.?

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18 years 10 months

Posts: 184

Israel would love to get atleast a squardon of these, with the arabs buying eurofighter I am sure US will sell israel these babies.

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20 years 10 months

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Israel would love to get atleast a squardon of these, with the arabs buying eurofighter I am sure US will sell israel these babies.

I doubt that the Arabs will get Eurofighters anytime soon. I also believe that the F-35 should be able to deal with if they ever will.

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18 years 11 months

Posts: 9,683

Israel would love to get atleast a squardon of these, with the arabs buying eurofighter I am sure US will sell israel these babies.

After the fiasco with Patriot and Lavi there's no way. I'd be surprised if they even get the F-35.

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18 years 7 months

Posts: 264

Wonder if this would be able to give the F-22 an anti-ship role since its replacing F-4ej kais that both do interceptor and antiship missions? An F-22 is far more scarier than a F-2 in any guise
Speaking of the F-2, whats wrong with the F-2? Have the Japanese given up on it already? Plus why not just scrap all F-15s, F-4ejkai, and remaining F-1s to justify an increased raptor buy? Replacing just 2 squadrons doesn't seem to be cost efficient. Why don't they just swallow the pride and buy a Rafale or Typhoon ? Both are far more capable than the F-2 and F-15 combinned but are cheaper than the F-22

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19 years 4 months

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Israel has no need whatsoever for F22s and frankly with the state that her only realy threatening neighbour is in (Syria) as well as the fact that she just loves technology transfers to less than reputable clients its about time she stood on her own two feet- ie she actually pays for something herself rather than through US tax-payers.

The manner in which the article ciscusses an International version does make me wonder whether they would consider using F-35 tech to give the F-22 a more multi-role capability, especially seeing the recent success of advanced F-15E variants.

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20 years 10 months

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After the fiasco with Patriot and Lavi there's no way. I'd be surprised if they even get the F-35.

The alleged 'Patriot deal' was never proven. Even the US eventually backed down from this claim.
About the Lavi - again, unproven, although is seems there was an Israeli-Chinese cooperation to some extent in the J-10's development. In a recent conversation I had with an Israeli aviation expert he told me that he too believes that there was a technology transfer, but it was done with the US blessing. People often forget that the US had a very strong interest to keep China strong during the Cold War. Among the rest, the US allowed Israel to sell China the Phyton-3 and upgrade their tanks with the latest Israeli technology. It is possible that the original cooperation between Israel and China over the J-10 was not only known to the US, but also approved by it.

About the F-35 - Israel is still a member in the JSF project. Its participation was suspended for a while, but the US assured Israel time and time again that it will receive F-35s sometime after the major members in the project.

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I also believe that the F-35 should be able to deal with if they ever will.

I think that Eurofighter is far superior in air to air combat than the F-35.

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In fact, the US and China were once pretty cosy,right up until Tienanmen Square. I think it was Reagen who said words to the effect that:

"China is a stick to beat Russia with"

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24 years 2 months

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I think that Eurofighter is far superior in air to air combat than the F-35.

That's an interesting topic for debate right there. The F-35 was designed to outperform the F-16, so in a dogfight it should be very, very capable. Then add the new extended range AMRAAMs, and you've got a weapon to match METEOR. Of course, being a stealth aircraft has advantages, namely that the EF-2000 will be targeted before it finds the F-35. To increase combat persistence you can give the F-35 a healthy external loadout, and then the RCS of the EF-2000 and the F-35 should come a lot closer to parity. Interesting debate. Very interesting. This could be fun maybe.

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I believe the US and Israel has reestablished the firewalls that are meant to keep US tech from leaking out. That was one of the prime conditions for Israel to be allowed back into the F-35 program. If those firewalls are deemed OK for export grade JSFs, they should be OK for export grade Raptors. If Israel can guarantee those firewalls, with the penalty of being b!tch slapped if they dont, then there should be no problems with the IDFAF operating the F-22.

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18 years 10 months

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Saudi is buying the eurofarter. I don't think US would stop israel from obtaining the F-22 eventually. Maybe as a future replacement for the F-15's, while the F-16a/b get replaced by JSF.

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Forgive me :o , this may sound stupid :o , but what about a customized version of the Raptor for Japan. Airframe and F119-PW-100 of the Raptor, but RADAR, FBW, Weapons etc, etc be Japanese. Raptor which can fire AAM-4, AAM-5, ASM-#??

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Forgive me :o , this may sound stupid :o , but what about a customized version of the Raptor for Japan. Airframe and F119-PW-100 of the Raptor, but RADAR, FBW, Weapons etc, etc be Japanese. Raptor which can fire AAM-4, AAM-5, ASM-#??

Given the integrated nature of many of the F-22As system I imagine such a course would be pretty much akin to reinventing the wheel. It would cost great hulking piles of money, re-introduce a great deal of risk and take a long time. Frankly I hope that the Japanese have learnt better from the F-2 debacle and that they hold out for some other quid pro quo to balance the ledger rather than screwing up a perfectly good aircraft.

Daniel

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Forgive me , this may sound stupid , but what about a customized version of the Raptor for Japan. Airframe and F119-PW-100 of the Raptor, but RADAR, FBW, Weapons etc, etc be Japanese. Raptor which can fire AAM-4, AAM-5, ASM-#??

A Raptor with the APG 77 replaced with Japanese radar, with the AMRAAM replaced by AAM 4, would be like a Ferrari in which you pull out that fabulous engine and you replace it with the engine of Suzuki Swift.

As for FBW, I am not aware of any Japanese designed one

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AAM-4 may not even fit into the main weapon bays anyway, they were designed for the compressed-carriage AIM-120C with the clipped fins.

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iadf will only get f35 after 2016-18

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Though other than Japan and maybe Israel I cannot see anyone else acquiring the F-22 anytime soon.