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Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

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15 years 5 months

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I only have one manual, the MiG-23ML manual, i will translate it and if some one wants to discuss it well is welcome

This is from the page 9 of the MiG-23 manual, in this page has in very few words the MiG-23ML and MiG-23UB main specifications:

We can see that the MiG-23ML has a weight with four R-3S missiles of 14670 kg and with two bombs of 500kg each of 15190kg, an internal fuel reserve of 3700kg, with an external fuselage tank it reaches 4360 kg, with external wing pod fuel tanks 5020 kg and with three fuel tank is 5680 kg, the MiG-23ML has a max speed at sea level of 1400 km/h, a Max speed of 2500 km/h or in Mach number of Mach 2.35, a practical ceiling of 17000 mtrs, a Max G limit of 8.5 at speeds below Mach 0.85 and 7.5Gs at speeds above Mach 0.85

The MiG-23ML has a flight range on internal fuel at the speed of Mach 0.74-0.77 with the wings set at a sweep angle of 16 degrees at ceiling of 14km-16km, of 1450km, this increases to 2360km with three fuel tanks

The MiG-23ML has a Max range with three external fuel tanks and two R-24/AA-7 Apex of 900km at a ceiling of 200 meters

The MiG-23 will accelerate at the altitude of 1 km from the speed of 630km to 1300km in just 30 seconds and at the altitude of 10km-12km will accelerate from Mach 1 to Mach 2 in just 160 seconds

The other page is the page number 1 and its the cover of the MiG-23ML manual

Original post

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16 years 3 months

Posts: 55

Can you share this manual?

Profile picture for user pesho

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16 years 11 months

Posts: 577

Also:
Time for acceleration:
from 600 to 1300 km/h in 1km heigh-30s/48,5s(UB)
from M=1 to M=2 in 10-12km heigh-160s/210s(UB)
Max range
Wing at 16 degrees,M=0,74-0,77,heigh 10-12 km:
without external tanks-1450/1210(UB)
with 3 external tanks-2360/1550(1 tank)
Range with 3 external tanks,2 R-23 missiles on 200m heigh-900km

MiG-23MLD i see that you ofter copy info from airwar.ru and there is several manuals in the book section.Here is some of them:
http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/mig21pf.zip -MiG-21PF
http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/mig29um.zip -MiG-29 manual for battle exploitation
http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/f16v3.pdf -F16
http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/a10fm.zip -A-10

.....i see that you edited your post before i post mine

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

Member for

15 years 5 months

Posts: 3,010

Also:
Time for acceleration:
from 600 to 1300 km/h in 1km heigh-30s/48,5s(UB)
from M=1 to M=2 in 10-12km heigh-160s/210s(UB)
Max range
Wing at 16 degrees,M=0,74-0,77,heigh 10-12 km:
without external tanks-1450/1210(UB)
with 3 external tanks-2360/1550(1 tank)
Range with 3 external tanks,2 R-23 missiles on 200m heigh-900km

MiG-23MLD i see that you ofter copy info from airwar.ru and there is several manuals in the book section.Here is some of them:
http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/mig21pf.zip -MiG-21PF
http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/mig29um.zip -MiG-29 manual for battle exploitation
http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/f16v3.pdf -F16
http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/a10fm.zip -A-10

.....i see that you edited your post before i post mine


Pesho what is the main page of www.airwar.ru for the manuals can you give me the link please thanks in advance
Profile picture for user pesho

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16 years 11 months

Posts: 577

MiG-23MLD here you go:
Main window:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3686/11vp2.th.jpg

Here description of the next page.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3277/22lu6.th.jpg

I hope you can proceed yourself afterwards.

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

Member for

15 years 5 months

Posts: 3,010

MiG-23MLD here you go:
Main window:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3686/11vp2.th.jpg

Here description of the next page.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3277/22lu6.th.jpg

I hope you can proceed yourself afterwards.


Thanks Pesho

here is another interesting MiG-23ML manual graph, despite it is commonly overlook vertical turning or looping, it`s a very important parameter to see how good an aircraft accelerates at turns.

In the following graph we can see that if the MiG-23ML starts a climb and executes a loop depending on the G forces the MiG-23 is exposed the MiG-23ML will gain altitue.

We can see that the MiG-23 starts this loops at the altitude of 1000 meters flying at a speed of 950km/h, the MiG-23LM sweep wing angle is 45 degrees and its weight 13000 kg, let`s notice the MiG-23 starts the loop at an slope angle of 20 degrees

This chart basicly is to show the relation between speed, max overload measured in in Gs and altitude

we can see that higher the G load the MiG-23 sustains in the loop, lower will be the final speed at the end of the loop and altitude it reached

This is a very important parameter because shows how easy the fighter can out accelerate and out turn an opponent in the vertical plane

The chart says that for each decrease of 0.5Gs the MiG-23ML will gain around 300-500 meters of altitude

Member for

21 years 8 months

Posts: 11,742

Thanks Pesho

here is another interesting MiG-23ML manual graph, despite it is commonly overlook vertical turning or looping, it`s a very important parameter to see how good an aircraft accelerates at turns.

In the following graph we can see that if the MiG-23ML starts a climb and executes a loop depending on the G forces the MiG-23 is exposed the MiG-23ML will gain altitue.

We can see that the MiG-23 starts this loops at the altitude of 1000 meters flying at a speed of 950km/h, the MiG-23LM sweep wing angle is 45 degrees and its weight 13000 kg, let`s notice the MiG-23 starts the loop at an slope angle of 20 degrees

This chart basicly is to show the relation between speed, max overload measured in in Gs and altitude

we can see that higher the G load the MiG-23 sustains in the loop, lower will be the final speed at the end of the loop and altitude it reached

This is a very important parameter because shows how easy the fighter can out accelerate and out turn an opponent in the vertical plane

The chart says that for each decrease of 0.5Gs the MiG-23ML will gain around 300-500 meters of altitude

It has to use kinetic energy for that, even at best 'combat weight'.

Profile picture for user Schorsch

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16 years

Posts: 3,718

I only have one manual, the MiG-23ML manual, i will translate it and if some one wants to discuss it well is welcome

Hallo MiG-23MLD,

thanks for sharing these valuable documents and offering your help in translating it. I am especially interested in performance evaluation and in using the provided data to model basic characteristics. I need to take a deeper look at the material and will then come back to you.
Do you have drag coefficient (that must be something like cx in Russian coordinate system) over Mach number? I saw that in another Russian document. It is very helpful, especially if it comes with curves for different external stores.

Thanks so far.

P.S.: Damned, has been a considerable time since I posted something. :p

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

Member for

15 years 5 months

Posts: 3,010

Hallo MiG-23MLD,

thanks for sharing these valuable documents and offering your help in translating it. I am especially interested in performance evaluation and in using the provided data to model basic characteristics. I need to take a deeper look at the material and will then come back to you.
Do you have drag coefficient (that must be something like cx in Russian coordinate system) over Mach number? I saw that in another Russian document. It is very helpful, especially if it comes with curves for different external stores.

Thanks so far.

P.S.: Damned, has been a considerable time since I posted something. :p

I will try Schorsch as soon as i find the page if it is there i will translate it gladly for you

Here is another page of the MiG-23ML manual, in this one you have the time it takes for a MiG-23 at different sweep wing angles to execute a horizontal turn and the respective disacceleration it produces.

Starting from a speed of 900km/h at 5000 meters of altitude, it will take 23 seconds to do a 360 degrees turn at the wing sweep angle of 45 degrees, this will disaccelerate the MiG-23ML to the speed of 490km/h.
It will take 37 seconds at the sweep angle of 72 degrees
Also you have the same information for different altitudes in specific 10km and 5km

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

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15 years 5 months

Posts: 3,010

Here is another page

Here we can see another view of a MiG-23 executing a loop, however in this the altitude changes very little little nonetheless the diving angle in the second part of the loop changes, we can see that in one the angle is 27 degrees and the other two are 24 degrees and 20 degrees respectively.

We can see that the tighter angle of 27 degrees bleeds more energy and speed than that of 20 degrees, however it is executed in less time (only 33 seconds)

Profile picture for user Schorsch

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16 years

Posts: 3,718

I will try Schorsch as soon as i find the page if it is there i will translate it gladly for you

Is it possible that those kind of data is not in the manual at all? I mean generally there is no data about the aerodynamic characteristics provided in a pilot's manual, just because the pilot is not in need of that. But I got a very useful reference of ther MiG-29 in the hands. That "Aerodynamic Manual" had these kind of data.
If you find anything that looks like cy over cx, or cx over M, you have a customer here. :D

Member for

17 years 4 months

Posts: 29

Is it possible that those kind of data is not in the manual at all? I mean generally there is no data about the aerodynamic characteristics provided in a pilot's manual, just because the pilot is not in need of that. But I got a very useful reference of ther MiG-29 in the hands. That "Aerodynamic Manual" had these kind of data.
If you find anything that looks like cy over cx, or cx over M, you have a customer here. :D

Hello Schorsch,
the documents/manual MIG-23MLD is talking about is this kind of "aerodynamic manual". I recommend downloading it. Many values of the graphs are not cyrillic (e.g. Cx or Cy) or easy to distinguish (e.g. км/ч is km/h or kmph).
The relation between Cx and Cy depending on mach numbers and wing swept can be seen here. There are a lot of other graphs showing more interesting relations.

Attachments

Member for

17 years 4 months

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... and for clarification of values these charts are helpfull.

Attachments
Profile picture for user Schorsch

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16 years

Posts: 3,718

Hello Schorsch,
the documents/manual MIG-23MLD is talking about is this kind of "aerodynamic manual". I recommend downloading it. Many values of the graphs are not cyrillic (e.g. Cx or Cy) or easy to distinguish (e.g. км/ч is km/h or kmph).
The relation between Cx and Cy depending on mach numbers and wing swept can be seen here. There are a lot of other graphs showing more interesting relations.

Thank you!
I just found these documents when searching through airwar.ru
I am really delighted about the quality of the graphs and actually was able to identify most of the graphs. I gave some to russian-speaking fellows and hopefully will have a useful performance model of the MiG-23, MiG-25 and MiG-29 soon.

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

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15 years 5 months

Posts: 3,010

Thank you!
I just found these documents when searching through airwar.ru
I am really delighted about the quality of the graphs and actually was able to identify most of the graphs. I gave some to russian-speaking fellows and hopefully will have a useful performance model of the MiG-23, MiG-25 and MiG-29 soon.

I think the document will help you a lot because it also includes some math, not as simple some times but definitively not difficult for engineers.

You also can compare some data and gave a more realistic idea of the MiG-23 performance.

I found for example that the MiG-23ML will accelerate at 1000 meters of altitude from 600 km/h to 900km/h in just 12 seconds, The F-18 for exmaple will take 18 secs from 600 km/h to 1000km/h at 1000 meters of altitude

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

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This is the horizontal acceleration-time graph for the MiG-23ML with its engine at full afterburner, with a fuel remnant of 2000 liters and carring two R-23 missiles.
We can see that the MiG-23ML will accelerate from 600km/h to 1100km/h in just 22 secs with its wings set at 45 degrees and at 1 km of altitude

This graph shows values for the different sweep wing angles of 16, 45 and 72 degrees and at different heights of 1km, 5km and 10km

Member for

21 years 8 months

Posts: 11,742

I think the document will help you a lot because it also includes some math, not as simple some times but definitively not difficult for engineers.

You also can compare some data and gave a more realistic idea of the MiG-23 performance.

I found for example that the MiG-23ML will accelerate at 1000 meters of altitude from 600 km/h to 900km/h in just 12 seconds, The F-18 for exmaple will take 18 secs from 600 km/h to 1000km/h at 1000 meters of altitude

We can see that the MiG-23ML will accelerate from 600km/h to 1100km/h in just 22 secs with its wings set at 45 degrees and at 1 km of altitude.

So both are similar. What is missing in that comparison is, we do not know what F-18 it was and what engines were fitted?

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

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15 years 5 months

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We can see that the MiG-23ML will accelerate from 600km/h to 1100km/h in just 22 secs with its wings set at 45 degrees and at 1 km of altitude.

So both are similar. What is missing in that comparison is, we do not know what F-18 it was and what engines were fitted?


It is an F-18C, the F-18C is the worst of all medium size fourth generation fighters in what respects acceleration according to the books "MiG-29 Fulcrum" by Gordon and "Su-27" by Fomin.

The Graph shows basicly that the MiG-23ML with its wings set up at 45 degrees accelerates from 600km/h to 900km/h in around 15 seconds or 14 seconds check by your self however since it is not very clear it is possible the MiG-23ML takes around 16 seconds to get from 600km/h to 1000km/h but it does not seem 18 seconds

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21 years 8 months

Posts: 11,742

It is an F-18C, the F-18C is the worst of all medium size fourth generation fighters in what respects acceleration according to the books "MiG-29 Fulcrum" by Gordon and "Su-27" by Fomin.

The Graph shows basicly that the MiG-23ML with its wings set up at 45 degrees accelerates from 600km/h to 900km/h in around 15 seconds or 14 seconds check by your self however since it is not very clear it is possible the MiG-23ML takes around 16 seconds to get from 600km/h to 1000km/h but it does not seem 18 seconds

It is ~ 18 seconds as you gave before. In the transonic range the drag rises not linear!
900 km/h at 1 km height ~ Mach 0,75
1000 km/h at 1 km height ~ Mach 0,83
1100 km/h at 1 km height ~ Mach 0,92

Both books did not give the related F404 engines!
I assume that the graphs from the manuals are correct!
You gave 12 seconds till 900 km/h and 22 seconds till 1100 km/h for the ML.

Profile picture for user Schorsch

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Posts: 3,718

I think the document will help you a lot because it also includes some math, not as simple some times but definitively not difficult for engineers.

Actually .., fairly easy. :D

And:
A clean F-18C with F404 -GE-400 at 26.000lbs at 4.000ft needs 11 seconds to accelerate from 360 kts to 550 kts, that is 666 km/h to 1020 km/h. Both speeds indicated airspeed.

While the claim that the F-18 is the "draggiest" 4th generation fighter in transonic regime is true. On the other hand, it is quite agile and very versatile. Everything comes with a price-tag.

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@MiG-23MLD:
Can you give me the exact version of the MiG-23ML-engine and its thrust (dry, afterburner). Possibly you also have specific fuel consumption or pressure ratio.
Thanks.