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Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

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16 years 1 month

Posts: 3,010

Actually .., fairly easy. :D

And:
A clean F-18C with F404 -GE-400 at 26.000lbs at 4.000ft needs 11 seconds to accelerate from 360 kts to 550 kts, that is 666 km/h to 1020 km/h. Both speeds indicated airspeed.

While the claim that the F-18 is the "draggiest" 4th generation fighter in transonic regime is true. On the other hand, it is quite agile and very versatile. Everything comes with a price-tag.


Schorsch

The MiG-23ML/MLA/P/MLD have the Tumansky R-35-300 engine, in the MiG-23ML manual there is an entire chapter dealing with the R-35 including the air intake operational features, in fact in Page 59 they have all the technical characteristics of the engine.
I will translate it very soon for you just give me some time.

The MiG-23 accelerates from 600km/h to 1000km/h in around 15 seconds, however notice the aircraft carries at least 2000 liters of fuel and two R-23 air to air missiles

I attached the MiG-23ML rate of climb graph, in it you can see the rate of climb at a given speed, altitude and sweep angle; for example at 1000 meters of altitude and at a wing setting of 45 degrees the MiG-23ML has a rate of climb 220 meters per second when its speed is in the vecinity of Mach 0.9, nevertheless as speed increases it will drop the rate of climb and at around 1400km/h its rate of climb is close to 120m/s.

Something different happens at 5km of altitude where the rate of climb remains around 120 m/s-140m/s independently of the the wing setting at speeds beyond Mach 0.9.

At 10km of altitude the reverse happens and beyond speeds of Mach 0.9 the rate of climb improves drastically, in fact at a speed of Mach 2 the rate of climb is 160m/s, it doubles the rate of climb at the speed of Mach 0.9 which is around 70m/s

Let`s notice the MiG-23 is carring two R-23 and weights 12000kg.

With respect accleration

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

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16 years 1 month

Posts: 3,010

Schorsch this is the R-35 specifications chart

Наименование параметра= parameter designation

полный форсаж=full afterburner

Минимальный форсаж=Minimum afterburner

максимал=maximum

номинал=nominal rating

крейсерский режим=cruise setting

частота вращения=RPM

Тяга=thrust

удельный расход топлива=specific fuel compsumtion

температура газов перед турбиной =temperature of the gases before the turbine

температура газов за турбиной=temperature of gases behind the turbine

степень повышения давления в компрессоре=air pressure increase rate at the compressor

расход воздуха =air flow rate

Тумблер полный форсаж в кабине самолета включен= full afterburner switch included in the MiG-23 cockpit instruments panel.

Тумблер полный форсаж в кабине самолета отключен= full afterburner switch in the MiG-23 cockpit instruments panel on

Member for

22 years 4 months

Posts: 11,742

Schorsch

The MiG-23ML/MLA/P/MLD have the Tumansky R-35-300 engine, in the MiG-23ML manual there is an entire chapter dealing with the R-35 including the air intake operational features, in fact in Page 59 they have all the technical characteristics of the engine.
I will translate it very soon for you just give me some time.

The MiG-23 accelerates from 600km/h to 1000km/h in around 15 seconds, however notice the aircraft carries at least 2000 liters of fuel and two R-23 air to air missiles

I attached the MiG-23ML rate of climb graph, in it you can see the rate of climb at a given speed, altitude and sweep angle; for example at 1000 meters of altitude and at a wing setting of 45 degrees the MiG-23ML has a rate of climb 220 meters per second when its speed is in the vecinity of Mach 0.9, nevertheless as speed increases it will drop the rate of climb and at around 1400km/h its rate of climb is close to 120m/s.

Something different happens at 5km of altitude where the rate of climb remains around 120 m/s-140m/s independently of the the wing setting at speeds beyond Mach 0.9.

At 10km of altitude the reverse happens and beyond speeds of Mach 0.9 the rate of climb improves drastically, in fact at a speed of Mach 2 the rate of climb is 160m/s, it doubles the rate of climb at the speed of Mach 0.9 which is around 70m/s

Let`s notice the MiG-23 is carring two R-23 and weights 12000kg.

With respect accleration

Thank you for the translation. We have to notice, that those are optimum climb data with minimum fuel at 12100 kg (~ 1000 litre) !

Member for

22 years 4 months

Posts: 11,742

Schorsch

The MiG-23ML/MLA/P/MLD have the Tumansky R-35-300 engine, in the MiG-23ML manual there is an entire chapter dealing with the R-35 including the air intake operational features, in fact in Page 59 they have all the technical characteristics of the engine.
I will translate it very soon for you just give me some time.

The MiG-23 accelerates from 600km/h to 1000km/h in around 15 seconds, however notice the aircraft carries at least 2000 liters of fuel and two R-23 air to air missiles

I attached the MiG-23ML rate of climb graph, in it you can see the rate of climb at a given speed, altitude and sweep angle; for example at 1000 meters of altitude and at a wing setting of 45 degrees the MiG-23ML has a rate of climb 220 meters per second when its speed is in the vecinity of Mach 0.9, nevertheless as speed increases it will drop the rate of climb and at around 1400km/h its rate of climb is close to 120m/s.

Something different happens at 5km of altitude where the rate of climb remains around 120 m/s-140m/s independently of the the wing setting at speeds beyond Mach 0.9.

At 10km of altitude the reverse happens and beyond speeds of Mach 0.9 the rate of climb improves drastically, in fact at a speed of Mach 2 the rate of climb is 160m/s, it doubles the rate of climb at the speed of Mach 0.9 which is around 70m/s

Let`s notice the MiG-23 is carring two R-23 and weights 12000kg.

With respect accleration

The read out for acc. shows ~16,875 seconds, but still a good value!

Profile picture for user Schorsch

Member for

16 years 8 months

Posts: 3,718

Schorsch this is the R-35 specifications chart

Thank you!
This is very helpful data, actually I can interpolate now and gain a useful engine model. The sfc and thrust data is for zero speed and altitude, I guess, but I can use a generic model to get the values for a turbo-jet. For the R-29 or R-27 I will just downsize the thrust levels. I guess the engines are basically similar except for the thrust rating.
Thanks a lot!

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

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16 years 1 month

Posts: 3,010

The read out for acc. shows ~16,875 seconds, but still a good value!

Sens how did you arrive to that value?

In the chart you can see the acceleration characteristics displayed by the MiG-23ML at 12700 kg of weight, armed with two R-23 air to air missiles and accelerating from 600 km/h to 1100 km/h at different wing settings and altitudes.

For example at 1000 meters of altitude and a wing setting of 45 degrees, it will accelerate from 600 km/h to 1100 km/h in 22 seconds, it will burn 179 kg of fuel to do that feat; also it will fly the distance of 5.5 km to accelerate to 1100 km/h from the initial speed of 600 km\h

We need to notice the R-35 will be at full afterburner

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22 years 4 months

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Sens how did you arrive to that value?

You are right, the enlargement of the graphic for 1000 km/h showed, that the measured value is ~16 seconds as you gave before. 1 mm makes the differnce sometimes at that scale.

Profile picture for user RPG type 7v

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16 years 6 months

Posts: 237

I only have one manual, the MiG-23ML manual, i will translate it and if some one wants to discuss it well is welcome

This is from the page 9 of the MiG-23 manual, in this page has in very few words the MiG-23ML and MiG-23UB main specifications:

We can see that the MiG-23ML has a weight with four R-3S missiles of 14670 kg and with two bombs of 500kg each of 15190kg, an internal fuel reserve of 3700kg, with an external fuselage tank it reaches 4360 kg, with external wing pod fuel tanks 5020 kg and with three fuel tank is 5680 kg, the MiG-23ML has a max speed at sea level of 1400 km/h, a Max speed of 2500 km/h or in Mach number of Mach 2.35, a practical ceiling of 17000 mtrs, a Max G limit of 8.5 at speeds below Mach 0.85 and 7.5Gs at speeds above Mach 0.85

The MiG-23ML has a flight range on internal fuel at the speed of Mach 0.74-0.77 with the wings set at a sweep angle of 16 degrees at ceiling of 14km-16km, of 1450km, this increases to 2360km with three fuel tanks

The MiG-23ML has a Max range with three external fuel tanks and two R-24/AA-7 Apex of 900km at a ceiling of 200 meters

The MiG-23 will accelerate at the altitude of 1 km from the speed of 630km to 1300km in just 30 seconds and at the altitude of 10km-12km will accelerate from Mach 1 to Mach 2 in just 160 seconds

The other page is the page number 1 and its the cover of the MiG-23ML manual

What have you done?! :eek: :eek: :eek:
You and those damned dumbass idiots from airwar,ru should be gratefull to god this is not good old USSR because you would be shoot execution style for giving to westerners such detailed information about our fighter thats even still in service..shame ,shame ,shame on you.i cant belive what you rasputins imbecils are doing. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
а что это за срака такая камераден? гы гы
i was wondering why are our security letting that crazy man jefim gordon
live but reading his childlish books ive become aware they are not danger because they are full of half-thruts and work very well as source of desinformation to confuse westerners :cool: ......................................
I would also very much appreciate if anyone could point me to flight manuals,pilots impresions and ultra-detailed info on F-22,yf-23, f-16 block 50/52/60 f-15c,k ,f-18 c,d,e,f,..... :diablo:

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 311

... I would also very much appreciate if anyone could point me to flight manuals ... f-16 block 50/52/60 ... :diablo:

Here you go :D .... ok, its only an F-16A MLU and not being an F-16 fanboy I don't know how authentic this material is. But it took (literally) less than 60 seconds to find on Google which quite frankly is midly scary since this aircraft is still in service with a number of countries.

Profile picture for user Schorsch

Member for

16 years 8 months

Posts: 3,718

Here you go :D .... ok, its only an F-16A MLU and not being an F-16 fanboy I don't know how authentic this material is. But it took (literally) less than 60 seconds to find on Google which quite frankly is midly scary since this aircraft is still in service with a number of countries.

Pretty boring stuff. Some systems, some combat manuevres. Nothing really "confidential". A manual only is of value if one can assess the performance of an aircraft by it, for example range and speed with particular load, turn and climb performance. Or one can see detailed technical solutions, engineering considerations, etc.
You won't find that in these Sim-Manuals, which are a first class dust-catcher.

The "aerodynamic manuals" given out by airwar.ru are actually of a useful class. OK, some people will miss the funny pictures, but with some knowledge you can figure how tight a MiG-23 can turn and what the excess power at 30kft and 4 missiles attached really is. It even doesn't hurt too much that it is in Russian. :D

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 311

Pretty boring stuff. Some systems, some combat manuevres. Nothing really "confidential". A manual only is of value if one can assess the performance of an aircraft by it, for example range and speed with particular load, turn and climb performance. Or one can see detailed technical solutions, engineering considerations, etc.
You won't find that in these Sim-Manuals, which are a first class dust-catcher.

The "aerodynamic manuals" given out by airwar.ru are actually of a useful class. OK, some people will miss the funny pictures, but with some knowledge you can figure how tight a MiG-23 can turn and what the excess power at 30kft and 4 missiles attached really is. It even doesn't hurt too much that it is in Russian. :D

Well I did stipulate it took me less than 60 seconds to find with a simple search and I emphasize simple search. Personally my interest in combat aircraft manuals starts with aircraft some 30 or 40 years old or older which is why the only item in the above posted list that even mildly interested me was the MiG-21PF manual and don't tell me that is still sensitive information vital to Russia's national security. I suppose the next part of my fiendish plan will have to be learning Russian so I can read the thing. My problem is usually that the manuals I am interested in obtaining have long since been fed to a paper shredder rather than that they are classified. A friend of mine, however, collects much more current manuals off the internet as a hobby. His example has taught me that you can get some amazing stuff off the net if you just invest some time in learning to use the advanced features of search engines like google. He also tours military surplus and scrap sales which yield a great deal of 'hard to believe they don't securely dispose of it' type equipment. There is actually a guy in the USA who built several US military helicopters that usually aren't for sale to the public from parts he bought at scrap sales. He uses them for film work.

Profile picture for user Matej

Member for

16 years 3 months

Posts: 254

....this is not good old USSR....

....why are our security letting that crazy man jefim gordon
live....

That are two most stupid statements that I read last year!!!

Profile picture for user RPG type 7v

Member for

16 years 6 months

Posts: 237

MiG-23MLU где пропадаешь???!!!you should delete your posts.
Wait,matej what you read and where ,,your post is very ambigues [i think i wrote it ok.]...
go be of some use kiddo and get me thoose flight manuals i requested.
savage-cabbage ,nop im not suprised that things ,mistakes,could happen in america or in russia or everywhere ,good quality missiles,engines, were found in russia at ordinarry dumps :eek: [to save money used for destruction of them-corruption :mad: ]also about nukes for recyclement protected by just barbwire,and 4 guards only....etc.et.c.......
F-14 is now out of service vere are its flight manuals,engine manuals etc... here plz?!?! :diablo:
In britain archives were open about how to build nuclear weapons [after 50 year period] and some interesting very precision manufacturing reading could be made untill they found out and closed them :cool: :dev2: i could go on and on,government decides if mig-21 manuals can be oppened for public or destroyed or stay closed,not MIG-23MLU not me not you...all else is treason,mig-21 is operated still in lot of countries and almost all is known about it but still some things are confidential.

Profile picture for user MiG-23MLD

Member for

16 years 1 month

Posts: 3,010

MiG-23MLU где пропадаешь???!!!you should delete your posts.
Wait,matej what you read and where ,,your post is very ambigues [i think i wrote it ok.]...
go be of some use kiddo and get me thoose flight manuals i requested.
savage-cabbage ,nop im not suprised that things ,mistakes,could happen in america or in russia or everywhere ,good quality missiles,engines, were found in russia at ordinarry dumps :eek: [to save money used for destruction of them-corruption :mad: ]also about nukes for recyclement protected by just barbwire,and 4 guards only....etc.et.c.......
F-14 is now out of service vere are its flight manuals,engine manuals etc... here plz?!?! :diablo:
In britain archives were open about how to build nuclear weapons [after 50 year period] and some interesting very precision manufacturing reading could be made untill they found out and closed them :cool: :dev2: i could go on and on,government decides if mig-21 manuals can be oppened for public or destroyed or stay closed,not MIG-23MLU not me not you...all else is treason,mig-21 is operated still in lot of countries and almost all is known about it but still some things are confidential.

Here are lots of manual and even the same MiG-23 manual and others
http://www.flight-manuals-on-cd.com/F14.html

even the YF-23 flight manual
http://www.flight-manuals-on-cd.com/Home2.html

by the way the MiG-21, MiG-29 and MiG-23 have good places in museums in Europe among them the US and UK, the West already has the planes and has evaluated the aircraft extensively, they do not need manuals any more ;)

Profile picture for user Matej

Member for

16 years 3 months

Posts: 254

Wait,matej what you read and where ,,your post is very ambigues [i think i wrote it ok.]...

My great-grandfather was chased by comunists half of his life, because he was grekocatholic clergyman and my grandfather was forced to work in work service camp for politicaly irresponsible people only because he was son of clergyman. And now I opened internet and read "old good USSR" and that security services should once again kill somebody. I think you didnt mean this in that consequence, but that statement made me absolutely angry!!!