German MiG 29's

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Hi everybody
Germany still has an important amount of MiG 29's, a souvenir from the cold war. I know they are used as agressors, but have to still got active duties, like IRF for nato? They are soon replaced (however soon...) by EF2000's (just like the Phantoms F4F ICE), but wouldn't it be better to keep this aircraft in service (or at least some of them) as agressors? Maybe they are not NATO-standard, but they can be still used.

Regards

Benjamin

Original post

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24 years 2 months

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RE: German MiG 29's

They´re expensive to maintain and right now the Germans are struggling to maintain combat readiness.
Let´s face it, when you´ve got an airforce consisting of F4s, Tornados and MiG 29s a Deutsch Mark doesn´t go very far.

RE: German MiG 29's

It seemed that the Luftwaffe-pilots are not THAT enthousiast about the Fulcrum. They complained about the engines, lack of visibility, oldfashion cockpit. The most important shortcoming of the eastgerman version was the total lack of passive and active ECM. Something that was standard on the Soviet-Fulcrums. I also think the German MIG lacks IFF (though i'm not totaly sure).

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RE: German MiG 29's

No.. hey .. he´s rigth!!!! Those Mig´s are very important to NATO because they are the only living example.. until now... ( remenber that NATO expanded to some countries that were part of the Soviet empire - Hungary' czech republic etc ) of Mig´s-29...

Best regards

Richa, Portugal

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RE: German MiG 29's

I wonder if the Indian Air Force has the same problems with the type. Balderdash?

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RE: German MiG 29's

The BIG problem the IAF had with the MiG-29 early on was the RD-33 engines...they would break down ever so often and maintenance was a nightmare. Over time, this was foxed after some hard bargaining with the Russians..and for the last 10 odd years, the Mig-29 has had a pretty flawless record with the IAF.

As for avionics fit etc, the IAF has always been pretty demanding of the Russians- note that unlike the erstwhile WarPac or Middle Eastern cronies, who pretty much had to accept what the Russians gave, India always had the option of telling the Russians to stuff it and buy more Mirage 2000s (the dual acquisition policy does have its advantages). So teh IAF MiG-29s had ECM and IFF fits comparable to the Russian AF..of course these would hardly be top of the line now- remember these were MiG-29As. Over the next few years, I would expect a major avionics upgrade...watch the Putin visit carefully- the deal for the 66 MiG-29Ks will probably be signed as will a whole host of other deals.

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RE: German MiG 29's

The IAF's version is the "Mig29S Fulcrum-C" with new avionics.
IAF Mig 29s have also undergone a local upgrade - don't know much about this.They can carry the Super 530D and the Magic 2 AAMS.IAF Mig29s are to be upgraded to SMT standard soon.

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RE: German MiG 29's

Phantomforever, have you read Jon Lakes "Fighting and Flying in the MiG-29" (can't remember the actual title but its something like that. The Luftwaffe pilot in that positivly loved his MiG-29 and claimed that in it he was unbeatable at ranges below 10km. Obviously they have complaints, its an old aircraft but some of them are of their own causing, eg the downrated engines.

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RE: German MiG 29's

Ink, any German pilot prefers the MiG 29- just look at the rest of the stuff they´re flying. A plane that they really like is the F18 C/D.

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RE: German MiG 29's

They're going to be thrilled by the Typhoon too. Especially with that ever so useful cannon.

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RE: German MiG 29's

Hmmm... For the price of one typhoon, one can buy about four Mig-29's. I wonder how flight of eight Fulcrums will fare against a pair of typhoons?

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RE: German MiG 29's

I'm going with strength in numbers...8 v 2 isn't even remotely fair, especially if they're Russian MiG-29SMT-II aircraft with the R-37M. The Typhoons would be dead before they even thought about being in Meteor range.

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RE: German MiG 29's

If a Mig 29 and a Typhoon meet in a dog fight,I think the Mig 29 has the advantage(over pretty much every other a/c except maybe the Su27/30/37 series)but how does the Typhoon's manouverability and agility compare with the Mig 29's?

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RE: German MiG 29's

Wrong. The Fulcrum-C/Type 9-13 is the humpbacked version, and India does not have this to my knowledge. They got full-standard -A models, whereas other export countries were getting downgraded -A models. Every single picture I've seen of an IAF MiG-29 clearly shows an -A model with the original spine. Whether or not the IAF MiG's have been upgraded locally, you're guess is as good as mine. However, due to the fact that the LCA is still not flying, I wouldn't put too much faith in the Indian aircraft industry just yet.

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RE: German MiG 29's

SOC, u are right- IAF MiG-29 and Indian aviation are junk. No good old planes- east meat for even upgraded F-7. IAF waste money on buying such planes.

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RE: German MiG 29's

Things that don't deserve a response....

This-

"SOC, u are right- IAF MiG-29 and Indian aviation are junk. No good old planes- east meat for even upgraded F-7. IAF waste money on buying such planes."

But I'm going to anyway. HA, do you honestly believe that an F-7 can take a MiG-29? Does the acronymn BVR mean anything to you?

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RE: German MiG 29's

Isn't fighting with the help of Allah kinda BVR fighting?

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24 years 2 months

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RE: German MiG 29's

Oh, the sarcasm...always the sarcasm...

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24 years 2 months

Posts: 12,009

RE: German MiG 29's

Interesting question, I'll look into it and get back with you.

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RE: German MiG 29's

Just couldn't help it...

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RE: German MiG 29's

One of the main problems that the Luftwaffe has had over the years has been the supply of spares from Russia. Of the 8 that you mention the Germans are happy if they can get half of them into the air.