The Super {slow} Hornet

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24 years 3 months

Posts: 839

Here's a link to a couple of articles done on the Super Hornet: http://www.infowar.com/iwftp/cspinney/c338.htm

I'll post one here.

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The Navy's super fighter is a super failure
By JAY A. STOUT
The Virginian-Pilot,
December 15, 1999

I am a fighter pilot. I love fighter aircraft. But even though my service -- I am a Marine -- doesn't have a dog in the fight, it is difficult to watch the grotesquerie that is the procurement of the Navy's new strike-fighter, the F/A-18 E/F Su per Hornet.

Billed as the Navy's strike- fighter of the future, the F/A-18 E/F is instead an expensive failure -- a travesty of subterfuge and poor leadership. Intended to over come any potential adversaries during the next 20 years, the air craft is instead outperformed by a number of already operational air craft -- including the fighter it is scheduled to replace, the original F/A-18 Hornet.

The Super Hornet concept was spawned in 1992, in part, as a re placement for the 30 year-old A-6 Intruder medium bomber. Though it had provided yeoman service since the early 1960s, the A-6 was aging and on its way to retirement by the end of the Gulf War in 1991. The Navy earlier tried to develop a replacement during the 1980s -- the A-12 -- but bungled the project so badly that the whole mess was scrapped in 1991. The A-12 fiasco cost the taxpayers $5 billion and cost the Navy what little reputation it had as a service that could wisely spend taxpayer dollars.

Nevertheless, the requirement for an A-6 replacement remains. Without an aircraft with a longer range and greater payload than the current F/A-18, the Navy lost much of its offensive punch. Consequently it turned to the original F/A-18 -- a combat-proven per former, but a short-ranged light bomber when compared to the A- 6. Still stinging from the A-12 debacle, the Navy tried to ``put one over'' on Congress by passing off a completely redesigned aircraft -- the Super Hornet -- as simply a modification of the original Hornet.

The obfuscation worked. Many in Congress were fooled into believing that the new aircraft was just what the Navy told them it was -- a modified Hornet. In fact, the new airplane is much larger -- built that way to carry more fuel and bombs -- is much different aerodynamically, has new engines and engine intakes and a completely reworked internal structure. In short, the Super Hornet and the original Hornet are two completely different aircraft de spite their similar appearance.

Though the deception worked, the new aircraft -- the Super Hornet -- does not. Because it was never prototyped -- at the Navy's insistence -- its faults were not evident until production aircraft rolled out of the factory. Among the problems the aircraft experienced was the publicized phenomenon of ``wing drop'' -- a spurious, uncommanded roll, which occurred in the heart of the air craft's performance envelope. After a great deal of negative press, the Super Hornet team devised a ``band-aid'' fix that mitigated the problem at the expense of performance tradeoffs in other regimes of flight. Regardless, the redesigned wing is a mish-mash of aerodynamic compromises which does nothing well. And the Super Hornet's wing drop problem is minor compared to other shortfalls. First, the air craft is slow -- slower than most fighters fielded since the early 1960s. In that one of the most oft- uttered maxims of the fighter pilot fraternity is that ``Speed is Life,'' this deficiency is alarming.

But the Super Hornet's wheezing performance against the speed clock isn't its only flaw. If speed is indeed life, than maneuverability is the reason that life is worth living for the fighter pilot. In a dog fight, superior maneuverability al lows a pilot to bring his weapons to bear against the enemy. With its heavy, aerodynamically compromised airframe, and inadequate engines, the Super Hornet won't win many dogfights. Indeed, it can be outmaneuvered by nearly every front-line fighter fielded today.

``But the Super Hornet isn't just a fighter,'' its proponents will counter. ``It is a bomber as well.'' True, the new aircraft carries more bombs than the current F/A- 18 -- but not dramatically more, or dramatically further. The engineering can be studied, but the laws of physics don't change for anyone -- certainly not the Navy. From the beginning, the aircraft was incapable of doing what the Navy wanted. And they knew it.

The Navy doesn't appear to be worried about the performance shortfalls of the Super Hornet. The aircraft is supposed to be so full of technological wizardry that the enemy will be overwhelmed by its superior weapons. That is the same argument that was used prior to the Vietnam War. This logic fell flat when our large, ex pensive fighters -- the most sophisticated in the world -- started falling to peasants flying simple aircraft designed during the Korean conflict.

Further drawing into question the Navy's position that flight performance is secondary to the technological sophistication of the air craft, are the Air Forces' specifications for its new -- albeit expensive -- fighter, the F-22. The Air Force has ensured that the F-22 has top-notch flight performance, as well as a weapons suite second to none. It truly has no ri vals in the foreseeable future.

The Super Hornet's shortcomings have been borne out anecdotally. There are numerous stories, but one episode sums it up nicely. Said one crew member who flew a standard Hornet alongside new Super Hornets: ``We outran them, we out-flew them, and we ran them out of gas. I was embarrassed for those pilots.'' These shortcomings are tacitly acknowledged around the fleet where the aircraft is referred to as the ``Su per-Slow Hornet.''

What about the rank-and-file Navy fliers? What are they told when they question the Super Hornet's shortcomings? The standard reply is, ``Climb aboard, sit down, and shut up. This is our fighter, and you're going to make it work.'' Can there be any wondering at the widespread disgust with the Navy's leadership and the hemorrhaging exodus of its fliers?

Unfortunately, much of the damage has been done. Billions of dollars have been spent on the Su per Hornet that could have been spent on maintaining or upgrading the Navy's current fleet of aircraft. Instead, unacceptable numbers or aircraft are sidelined for want of money to buy spare parts. Paradoxically, much of what the Navy wanted in the Super Hornet could have been obtained, at a fraction of the cost, by upgrading the cur rent aircraft -- what the Navy said it was going to do at the beginning of this mess.

Our military's aircraft acquisition program cannot afford all the proposed acquisitions. Some hard decisions will have to be made. The Super Hornet decision, at a savings of billions of dollars, should be an easy one.

Lt. Col. Jay Stout is a Marine fighter pilot, combat veteran, and the author of Hornets Over Kuwait. These views are his own and do not represent the views of the Department of the Navy, the Marine Corps, or the United States government.

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Doh!

Original post

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That sounds bad!

LAST EDITED ON 30-Sep-00 AT 03:51 PM (GMT)[p]..."Lt. Col. Jay Stout is a Marine fighter pilot, combat veteran, and the author of Hornets Over Kuwait. These views are his own and do not represent the views of the Department of the Navy, the Marine Corps, or the United States government."

Sure, nobody from the Department of the Navy, the Marine Corps or the United States government is going to fly that plane into combat missions....

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Posts: 12,009

RE: That sounds bad!

Right now there's gotta be at least one Admiral cursing the Pentagon and Congress for killing off the NATF program...

RE: That sounds bad!

it makes you wonder what the Navy will do when it has to face an opponent equiped with modern fighters (Su-27/30/35/37, MiG-29SMT, Rafale,...) in the near futur. hopefully for them there will still be a squadron of F-14D Tomcats on board.

Can somebody tell me what the original plans were from the Navy to replace their Tomcats (if there was still a cold war). I know they were planning to upgrade all existing F-14A to D-standard. But what was their longterm replacementplan ? We all know that the Superhornet never would have existed if the cold war was still going on. I know about their plans involving the attackbombersquadrons (upgrading A-6E to A-6F standard and from late ninetees introducing the A-12A Avenger). Where they planning to buy navilised versions of the F-22A to replace the Supertomcat ?

To conclude ; the USN always had aircraft that where (at their taken into service) ahead of their opponents ; the F-4B phantom, A-6A Intruder, F-8 Crusader (at the certain moment the best US dogfighter), ofcourse the F-14A Tomcat. Now they simply lost it. The first JSF-sq will be operational only around 2010.
Really sad.

The Super {slow} Hornet

I agree completely, the E/F series is nothing close to the best the Navy should have.

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24 years 3 months

Posts: 12,009

RE: That sounds bad!

Most of the F-14's would have been modified to -A+(B) or D model, and well more than the 40 or so new-build -D models would have been made. The F-14 successor was always meant to be the NATF, but this was canned a few days after the F-22 was announced as the winner in the ATF competition. Ironic, isn't it, seeing as how one of the main reasons the F-22 was selected was the strength of their NATF proposal. Cold War ended, Congress was unleashed, now life is getting tough for the US Military procurement offices.

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RE: The Super {slow} Hornet

Rosco,

Are you the famed Rafale fan??

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RE: The Super {slow} Hornet

Div >

Yep, that would be me!

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Posts: 794

The little fighter that can't...

LAST EDITED ON 01-Oct-00 AT 09:41 AM (GMT)[p]Phantomforever, SOC,
exactly 127 new F-14Ds should've been built and 400+ older airframes rebuilt to F-14D standards (under the designation of F-14D(R)). These plans were abandoned due to budgetary constraints. The F-14B was designed as an interim improved Tomcat pending the availability of the full-standard F-14D.

Regarding Phantomforever's questions about what was planed instead of F-14, there is excellent book in which all the answers can be found: "TOMCAT! The Grumman F-14 Story", by R.Adm. (USN.Ret.) Paul T. Gillcrist.

Gillcrist represented the Navy in different functions in front of many congressional boards, continuously fighting against "killings" of F-14-program.

In the chapter 33 he stated:
"...The decision to embark on a program to replace the F-14 fighter and the A-6 long range, all-weather strike airplane with a single airplane was approved at the highest level in the Defense Department. The program, called VFMX, was approved and initial funding for trade studies, feasibilities studies and concept evaluation was approved. The initial operational capability (IOC) of the VFMX at that time was to be about 1997. At the same time the urgency to improve both the A-6 and the F-14 as interim measures to counter increasing Soviet threat was also clearly understood."

Then he descirbes how the emergence of the stealth technology called for the forumlation of the ATA (Advanced Tactical Aircraft program, which resulted in A-12, and discus its details, only that the Navy finally came to the idea of the AX program, which produced the F/A-18E/F as a "cheaper" alternative to F-14D and A-12. In the course of budget cuts, one program after the other was cancelled, with the Navy in 1991 left without any reall alternative for A-6F (OK, the plane seem not to have been anything really special), F-14D, A-12 and then even VFMX, and the replacement of all of these with F/A-18E/F.

However, as Gilcrist remarked: "This is where the flawed logic shows up. At the time of this writing (his book was published in 1994), there is about USD 5 billions of R&D (research and development) in the fiscal year 1992 five year defense plan, with more certain to come, in order to increase the wing area and internal fuel capacity of the F/A-18."

Then, the most important statement: "There can be no solid estimates as to development and procurement costs until the design matures. Nevertheless, in early September I listened to a senior naval officer try to prove with slides that a completed design with virtually all of the R&D dollars already spent (F-14D) would, without question, have higher life cycle costs than a paper airplane just starting development (F/A-18E/F). If that isn't comparing apples and oranges, I don't know what is!"

At some time the argument about lower cycle costs of F/A-18E/F came, even if the plane is actually some USD 10 million more expensive than F-14D in aquisition alone.

Stealth-components used in F/A-18E/F were also some of the arguments used for promoting that type, withour anybody ever seriously considering Grumman's proposals for "Super Tomcat 21", which would have at least same capabilities in that arena like Super Hornet. Super Tomcat 21 would also make a much more use of its optical/laser sensors (FLIR/LANTRIN, TCS, IRST), less subjective to early detection than any radars.

To finish this with three further Gillcrist's statements:

"...the F-14D represents the absolute state-of-the-art in reliability and maintainability improvements. The synergism which this would represent in that all F-14D air wing would be equally enormous (to all F/A-18E/F air wing) especially in terms of logistics." - and that to a much cheaper price then now paid for Super Hornet and ten years earlier.

"One thing is clear. We do not know just how effective stealth really is. The experience of the Persian Gulf (meaning Desert Storm) should be taken with a grain of salt."

I would say, that after the experiences over Yugoslavia last year, the experiences in the use of stealth should be taken with at least a spoon of salt.

"But there remained within the blue suit ranks enough credible aviators who knew tht the decision to replace F-14Ds with F/A-18Es and Fs was stupid".

Lt. Col. Jay Stout showed that this is not only the case within the US Navy.

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RE: The Super {slow} Hornet

The Flight International issue dated 11-17 July 2000 features a test flight of the F18 E. The plane, if the article is anything to go by, should prove to be an exceptional fighter, with incredible high alpha capabilities. I consider myself a Rafale fan and generally a fan of the French aviation industry but aerodynamically speaking the F18E is one helluva plane-far superior to the old Hornet and probably the equal of the Rafale. I find the opening comments on this thread astonishing.

RE: The Super {slow} Hornet

Yes, the SuperHornet is a sorry POS. Yes, its a giant step backwards. However, I can take great pride in the fact that the manufacterer of the SuperHornet provided our US congressmen and senators with the best whores money could buy. I can sleep well at night knowing that elected officials in my country enjoyed the type of oral pleasure that ONLY $500 whores could provide. Screw the Navy- they wouldn't bitch about the SuperHornets if they only knew all the "sweaty" details and "hard" work that the SuperHornet's champions endured.

As for the JSF- may the team with the best prostitutes win! My representatives deserve at least that, and much more.

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Posts: 114

RE: The Super {slow} Hornet

>Div >
>
>Yep, that would be me!

Alright...one more Rafale fan!