I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Member for

19 years 11 months

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Hi there Guys I am back after a long absence from this forum.... Yikes it seems to have had a summer clear out. Never mind that I have a small thing on my mind. I am joining the Royal Air Force within the next two years. However one thing I think about greatly is the fact that basically I will be paid to kill someone or something eventually. What does everyone else think about the fact that your own country pays you to kill someone? THis is a strong morality subject.

Regards...Maverick.

Original post

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 77

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Never had a second thought about it. Spent 20 years in the US Air Force as a Munitions Systems Specialist and loved it. Would not hesitate to recommend the military as a career to anyone.
(Okay, maybe munitions is not for everyone, but it's still a good life). If you're concerned about being part of an organization that may ultimately kill a lot of people, perhaps medical or administrative is the way to go. Either way you're still serving your country.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 258

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

If you join the Royal Airforce there is just a chance you will kill someone. The only conflicts we had in years was bombing iraq for a bull reason while american buisness men got rich off oil. You are likely not to ever kill anyone unless you become a bomber. Also with the JSF america and your royal airforce are making youl never see the guy you kill and he will never know you were there.

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

If you want to join the Air Force then you have to live with it. There's no point joining the military and being 'political'. Either way, you'll be lucky to see the people you might end up killing.

Final thought - the latest AAMs have new software logarithms that can make the missile explode in or by specific parts of the airframe. The most logical choice is to target the cockpit (I suppose the Martin Baker won't be as useful any more!)!

KZ

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 4

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Don't think of it as ending the life of one person, but instead think of it as protecting the lives of hundreds or thousands of the people of your country.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 258

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

unless the war is a bullshit american war for higher oils prices. Speaking of which when Serbia invaded Kosavo why didnt we attack Serbia forcing them to withdrawl? There is no point in killing a country your helping. later.

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Merlin,
Serbia never 'invaded Kosovo' - it is part of Serbia and always has been, it is the Serb's Jerusalem. you ought to read a bit more and not trot out propaganda.

As for invading Serbia, the only possible way would have been from Hungary (legal, I think not) and it would have take well over half a year to get everything organised and an invasion during a Balkan winter is not recommended. Hopefully, Putin will send a few nukes to Yugoslavia to stop their next 'humanitarian war'.

KZ

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 86

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Maverick,

Good to know you're joining the Air Force. I can empathise with your emotions- that is a choice you have to make- he govt trains and pays you to defend your country- and that may indeed involve killing someone. If you ever do see combat, in the rush of combat, its training and survival instinct that take over- you scarcely have time to philosophise about the fact that you may kill someone. That comes later- and I'll be lying if I said that most people don't think about it afterwards. But there are a couple of things that may help you sort it out:

1. The adversary is also trained to perform his task- if you do not kill him- he will kill you.
2. You are defending your nation or its interests- in combat, killing someone may mean saving hundreds of civilian lives, or your buddy's, who's flying next to you.
3. You are not fighting for personal gain- this is not a street brawl- you are fighting to protect your nation- and there can be nothing nobler than that. The corollary is that you may just as easily be killed- does that make you afraid? Perhaps it does- but there are some things bigger than personal fear or guilt- as a poet (Elliot I think) once wrote:

There's no better way to die,
than facing fearful odds,
for the ashes of one's fathers,
and the temples of one's gods.

cheers.

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Mav, you automatically assume you will kill. You must be young. Very, very few people, especially those going into the Air Force, will kill more than bugs and about a million beers. Just make sure you give the cans a proper burial.

The biffmaster returns

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 78

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Now this sounds more like the reality of Airforce life.
Merlin, you don't say what you are joining as, but this is I believe what you can look forward too:

Officer Non-Pilot: A period of training where you will be convinced the sun won't rise unless you get up everymorning and bend over followed by a career of being politely told by those who actually know how to do your job (SNCO's), how to do your job and then retirement wondering why the pilots got all the promotions. Of course if you can get yourself onto a project team and learn procurement you can get out afterwards and work for a contractor selling stuff to the defence force for grossly inflated prices and then never answering the phone when they ring to say it does not work, has not showed up, never existed or actually costs 10 times what you quoted.

Pilot: This is the gravy train. Although the training will be tough and your parentage will be called into question most hours, on graduation the fun will begin. Fly a little bit, maybe drop some bombs on some hapless backward country from 30 000ft and return to base. From here you have two choices;
a: Stay in and get promoted regularly until you are put in command of something.
b: Get out and fly for an Airline at some outrageous rate of pay or work for a contractor and use your inside knowledge to sell to defence (see above).

Enlisted Ranks: Now this one can be pretty good. You must remember you are working for the government therefore anything they buy or own is by defacto yours (if you are technically employed your home tool box will be great). Trips away will teach you how to deal with alcoholism. Promotion wont figure largely in your life, but thats OK because if it does you will just end up teaching some Officer how to do his/her job. The big problem will arrive when one of the ex Officers working for a big contractor will come along and tell your bosses they can do your job better and cheaper with civvies. Then you probably get out and work for said contractor for half your previous pay and doing twice the work because they deliberatley understated their manpower requirements to win the contract.

I hope this clears up a few points and focuses your mind on what being an Airforce is actually all about.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 258

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

I am joining as a pilot if you must know. Also see above and you will find that some people agree with my opinion. That is even if you bother to read what you reply to. I was fully aware of what i would need to do but thank you for the info. Pretty soon they wont need pilots anymore due to the UCAVSc so maybe you should read up more or try watching the history channel more often.

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

What the hell? Has Mav suddenly gone under the knife to become Merlin? Mik is probably right, especially about NCO's running things from behind the scenes while some inept officer dipshit gets all the credit. The only brass worth a crap are former enlisted and fighter pilots. The rest are hopeless and will never kill anything except some poor enlisted puke's career. Wake-up Merlin, Mik and I might have a different 'angle' on this, but its much more realistic than some lofty ivory tower crap that others here profess. The bottom line is, for 95% of those that join the AF, it is a JOB and will not involve combat. You will have other worries as an officer, such as, how many lumps of sugar to put in the CO's coffee each morning and how to do it from a kneeling position.

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Kras, what is your logic here? Hopefully nukes in Yugoslavia? Are you joking or what. I hope so. That is the dumbest thing I have read here, except for my own post of course;)

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 258

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Since when did i say I would see combat??? I was the one saying that you wont kill anyone. Again another one who doesnt bother to read what he replies to!!! Read up above at my view, i said you wont see combat unless you bomb the hell out of a poor inbreed third world country. Why bomb them for making the same deadly gas we have? We are also likely to use it just as much as Iraq? Ever read a history a book anyone? America has tested its waepons on the innocent before too. Ever hear of actully turning on the tv to watch the history channel? During the Mannhatten project we expirmented on our people. The British did LSD test on there men. HELLO so why bomb them for the same stuff we do. The only goddamn difference between America and Iraq is we have more money and can cover up our expirments unlike them!

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Posts: 129

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

well i actually supported america when it attacked iraq ,iraq of course invaded kuwait ,i do not think it was wrong for america to do so ,but i do think it was wrong for america to attack serbia last year ,the difference is that iraq invaded another sovereign country, serbia however did not.

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19 years 11 months

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RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

german nazi pilots too defended their country from attack from other countries ,so did they do the right thing??

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 129

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

the question is not really about if you are going to kill someone, maverick, it is more of what kind of a person you are going to kill, are you going to kill an evil person ,or are you going to kill a good person ,now the decision to attack or not rest with the politicans and the top brass not with you. now, if it perfectly ok for you to kill someone(and you do not know if this person is good or evil) under the orders of someone else(and you do not also know if he is good or evil) then by all means join the air force,but remember just because he is a politician of your country or a top military officer that does not mean that he is a good guy.if you join you might even have to kill someone even if you truly believe he is not evil ,because you will always have to follow orders,but like i said if you are perfectly ok with this , then join ,however if you are not ,then it would be best for you to look for another profession.

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 258

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

You half to think the people you are flying against are not the enemy. As an example most pilots in the Gulf war and Serbia didnt give a crap about the cause they were killing for, they just wanted a promotion. This is what makes the justification to kill so difficult. But they will kill you if you dont kill them so try to open fire first.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 77

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

Like the T-shirt says:

Join the Air Force
Fly over exotic foreign countries
Look down on friendly waving people
And drop bombs on them

RE: I am back and this forum is close to dead now!!!

The comment is directed to the original author of the this subject you f@cking moron! And what are you rambling about? It has nothing to do with the original subject. Maybe YOU should start reading posts @sshole.