By: George_nkl
- 1st July 2007 at 15:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Saeed Khan, very interesting pictures!
New
Posts: 148
By: MiG_Master
- 10th July 2007 at 17:34Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
New F-16s Delivered
Its a bit early, i Have just got the news that 02 F-16s have landed at sarghoda(Mushaf AFB) delivered from USA, with 10 more shall be delivered at end of this year or early next year.
By: Avid Aviator
- 11th July 2007 at 08:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
MUSHAF BASE, July 10: The United States on Tuesday started the long-awaited delivery of F-16 aircraft to Pakistan when two of the `Fighter Falcons’ were handed over to the Pakistan Air Force.
The handing over ceremony was held at the PAF base near Sargodha where two F-16s landed after being directly flown from the US.
Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed, US Ambassador to Pakistan Anne W. Peterson and a large number of senior officers of the PAF attended the ceremony.
Commander of Central Air Command of US Air Force Lt-Gen Gary L. North, along with a colleague, flew the aircraft and reached here after a continuous flight of over eight hours across the Atlantic.
The handing over marked the beginning of the programme for the delivery of the fleet of a dozen aircraft to Pakistan. These aircraft were manufactured in 1990s and their delivery to Pakistan was stopped following imposition of the Pressler Amendment.
Later, these were given to the US air force and navy.
Talking to APP, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed said that the remaining 10 aircraft would be given to Pakistan in batches till the middle of next year.
“These are exceptionally used aircraft and are being given to us at very nominal prices,” he said.
He said the delivery of the aircraft to Pakistan was only possible after hectic negotiations with the US Air Force.
In addition to these aircraft, he said, efforts were in hand to get 16 more aircraft which were in the use of US Navy and these were part of the 28 aircraft for which Pakistan had made the payment.
In the meantime, he said, offers had been made by the US Administration to get the similar number of aircraft being used by the US Navy from the US National Guards. —APP
By: Usman
- 25th August 2007 at 20:40Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mirage-IIIEA
Pakistan conducted test of a new cruise missile today from an ROSE-I upgraded Mirage-IIIEA (5xx serial meaning an ex-Aussie bird): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNppgV7tFk
New
Posts: 143
By: griffin_pak
- 25th August 2007 at 20:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
hey whats the range for this one (air launched) versus ground launched?
thanks
New
Posts: 1,877
By: 21Ankush
- 26th August 2007 at 09:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Usman, are you the Usman Ansari who wrote an article on the JF-17 in Combat Aircraft's latest issue ?
By: uss novice
- 28th August 2007 at 00:06Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting development that brings out some questions:
This 'Raad' ASM flies 300+ km and is light enough to be carried by a Mirage III? Is there any such missile worldover? Most ASMs with such ranges (300km+) weigh well over a 1000kgs. The Scalp EG, taurus weighs close to 1300/1400 kgs, so does the Klub, the Brahmos weighs about 2500kg. The older ones such as the Harpoons, Sea Eagles, Exocets, Kh 31s all weigh from around 500-700 kgs with corresponding ranges of about 100-200 km. So, surely the Mirage III can hardly be the platform for this weapon? Also, what kind of guidance does this beast use esp. for such huge ranges, esp. if it is to be used for anti-shipping roles as some of the reports have suggested - INS/GPS+Datalink (for midcourse) and then radar homing in terminal phase?
By: lightning F57
- 28th August 2007 at 00:54Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting development that brings out some questions:
This 'Raad' ASM flies 300+ km and is light enough to be carried by a Mirage III? Is there any such missile worldover? Most ASMs with such ranges (300km+) weigh well over a 1000kgs. The Scalp EG, taurus weighs close to 1300/1400 kgs, so does the Klub, the Brahmos weighs about 2500kg. The older ones such as the Harpoons, Sea Eagles, Exocets, Kh 31s all weigh from around 500-700 kgs with corresponding ranges of about 100-200 km. So, surely the Mirage III can hardly be the platform for this weapon? Also, what kind of guidance does this beast use esp. for such huge ranges, esp. if it is to be used for anti-shipping roles as some of the reports have suggested - INS/GPS+Datalink (for midcourse) and then radar homing in terminal phase?
Anyone have any answers?
Regards,
USS.
You raise some good questions, what I had gathered was this isnt a ASM but a cruise missile for land attack purposes. I think the Pakistan armed forces are equipping it on their fighter jets, ships ect. They cant fit the Babur on planes with its current length and dimensions, so I presume they have made it smaller for the Mirages to be able to launch.
By: khanasifm
- 28th August 2007 at 03:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
U.S. pilot tested "Xiaolong"
新华网 （ 2007-08-27 08:59:25 ） Xinhuanet (2007-08-27 08:59:25) 来源： 国际先驱导报 Source : International Herald Tribune
美国空军Ｆ－１６战斗机飞行员杰森·克莱门茨在“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器上操作。 Air Force F-16 fighter pilots Jiesenkelai come in "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator operation. 赵嘉麟/摄 Kyrgyzstan and / perturbation
“枭龙”战斗机模型。 "Fierce Dragon" fighter plane model. 赵嘉麟/摄 Kyrgyzstan and / perturbation
“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器在俄罗斯航展上成为众人跃跃欲试的焦点，美国飞行员也拿它与F-16作对比 "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator in Russia show everyone eager to become the focus of an American pilot carries it with the F-16 for comparison
国际先驱导报记者赵嘉麟发自莫斯科 “感觉不错，一些主要功能和Ｆ－１６相差不多！”杰森·克莱门茨兴致勃勃地在“枭龙”模拟器上操作了５分钟后，对《国际先驱导报》这样说道。 International Herald Tribune old friend from Moscow, "I feel good, and some of the major functions of the F-16 are very similar!" Jiesenkelai door visit to Mainz in "Fierce Dragon" on the operation of the simulator five minutes later, the "International Herald Tribune" so said. 这位美国空军Ｆ－１６战斗机飞行员操纵自如的表现引来不少参观者围观。 The Air Force F-16 fighter pilots maneuverability performance attracted a large crowd of visitors.
俄罗斯第八届国际航空航天展览会8月２１日开幕当天，中国航空工业第一集团公司展区中的“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器成为了参观者眼中的“明星”。 Russian eighth international aerospace exhibition on August 21 opening day, the China Aviation Industry Corporation I galleries of the "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator into the eyes of the visitors for the "Star."
数字化功能令人印象深刻 Digital function impressive
《国际先驱导报》记者在展会现场看到，“枭龙”训练模拟器的正前方墙上悬挂三块大型彩色液晶屏，模拟座舱内的视野。 "International Herald Tribune" at the exhibition site, "Xiaolong" training simulator is the front wall of three large color LCD screen, simulated cockpit of vision. 它们上方还挂着两块稍小的彩屏，分别显示飞机的空中姿态和地面的情况。 They also hung over the two smaller screen, showed the plane's air posture and the situation on the ground.
训练模拟器本身，无论从外观大小，还是内部设置，都是模拟真实飞机座舱而建，只不过没有舱盖。 Training Simulator itself, in terms of exterior size, or internal settings are simulated real aircraft cabin built, it is not hatch. 成都飞机设计研究所工程师贺卫东告诉《国际先驱导报》：“此次展出的是中国惟一一台，也是最基础的‘枭龙’训练模拟器，生产方可根据客户需求加装必要设备。建造一台普通‘枭龙’训练模拟器的花费在数千万元人民币。该模拟器可演练航空、作战等多项任务，能够帮助飞行员熟悉不同飞行高度、距离和方位，以及感知态势。” Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute engineers Fa told the "International Herald Tribune" : "This exhibition is only one Taiwan, but also the most basic 'Fierce Dragon' training simulator, production may, in accordance with customer needs to install the necessary equipment. The construction of an ordinary 'Fierce Dragon' Training Simulator thousands spent 10,000 yuan. The simulator can drill aviation, combat tasks that can help pilots familiar with the different altitude, distance and orientation, perception and momentum. "
亲身体验了“枭龙”的杰森在谈起它与美军Ｆ－１６战机的区别时，也特别提到了前者座舱内操作面板上的三块多功能显示屏，并大加赞赏。 Experience the "Fierce Dragon" Jason talked about it with the U.S. F-16 fighter distinction, also made special mention of the former cockpit panels operating on the three multi-function display, and much appreciated. 他认为，此外，“两者在操纵杆和其他仪器布局方面也有所不同”。 He believes that, "Both the joystick and other equipment layout is also different." 他微笑着告诉记者：“因为时间太短，没有熟悉‘枭龙’全部功能，因此我没办法完全比较两种战机的性能。不过，你们这款战斗机的数字化功能令我印象深刻。” He smiled and told reporters : "Because of the shortness of time, not familiar with the 'Fierce Dragon' full functionality, I can not fully compare the performance of the two fighters. However, your new fighter digital functions impressed me deeply. "
中国一航副总经理胡问鸣对《国际先驱导报》表示，“枭龙”在火控系统和操纵灵活性等方面表现不俗，但在续航能力和高度方面与Ｆ－１６还有差距。 An Air China asked Hu Ming, deputy general manager of the "International Herald Tribune", "Xiaolong" fire-control system and the flexibility of manipulation good performance, but in life and with a height of the F-16 is still lagging behind.
机动性能强 Mobility -
贺卫东向记者指出，熟练的飞行员在空中完成从发现目标到将其击中的一系列动作只有几十秒，“反应的速度要像打乒乓球那样快”。 Fa told reporters that skilled pilots in the air from detection of the target to be hit in a series of moves only seconds, "the speed of response, like playing table tennis as fast." “为了抓住稍纵即逝的战机，战斗机研制单位大都通过提高飞机机动性来争取更多一点的时间，‘枭龙’也不例外。” "In order to seize the fleeting aircraft, fighter development units mostly through increased mobility aircraft to fight for a little more time, 'Fierce Dragon' is no exception."
在得到参展单位许可后，《国际先驱导报》记者也进入“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器，并在工作人员指导下“试飞”。 With the permission of the exhibitors, "International Herald Tribune" reporter also entered the "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator, and the staff under the guidance of "flight." 原来，驾驶“枭龙”真是名副其实的全身运动：双脚要控制地面滑行时的方向，以及完成着陆后的制动；作手负责加减速度，右手通过操纵杆控制飞行高度和姿态，以及武器发射等。 Originally, the driving "Xiaolong" It's truly systemic Movement : feet to the ground control and swerved in the direction, and the completion of the brake after landing; Modified responsible for the hand speed, the right hand by a joystick control altitude and attitude and weapons firing. 当然，这只不过是最基本的内容。 Of course, this is only the most basic elements. 实际飞行时，飞行员还要承受战机完成各种动作时对身体产生的各种影响。 The actual flying hours, fighter pilots to endure all kinds of physical action at the various implications.
记者顺利从“跑道”起飞升空，并在工作人员帮助下在空中完成了一个筋斗动作。 Xinhua smoothly from the "runway" take-off and expected to help staff in the air and completed a somersault movements. 不过，降落时，却遇到了不小的麻烦。 However, when landing, but encountered a lot of trouble. 即便在工作人员帮助下不断调整姿态，记者“着陆”时，最终还是滑出了“跑道”。 Even in the work of helping to continually adjust its posture and press "landing", or skidded off the end of the "runway."
价格远低于F－16 The price far below the F-16
“枭龙”由中国和巴基斯坦联合研制，中方称ＦＣ－１，巴方则称ＪＦ－１７“雷电”战斗机。 "Fierce Dragon" from China and Pakistan, the joint development, the Chinese side said the FC - 1, said the Palestinian side JF-17 "Thunder and Lightning" fighter. 对于中方来说，这是第一种完全基于市场需要而研制的战机。 As far as China is concerned, this is the first one based solely on the needs of the market and the development of warplanes.
此前有报道称，由于俄罗斯官员不允许中国将装有俄制ＲＤ－９３型发动机的“枭龙”出售给巴基斯坦，因此，外界对于这款战斗机的命运一度颇多猜测。 Earlier, there were reports that Russian officials will not permit China with Russian RD-93 engine, "Xiaolong" sold to Pakistan, therefore, the outside world for the fate of this aircraft was a lot of speculation. 而俄罗斯《生意人报》今年４月报道称，俄方已同中方达成了用ＲＤ－９３型发动机共同组装“枭龙”战机并向第三国出口的协议，而且得益于普京总统亲自拍板。 While Russia, "Kommersant" in April this year reported that the Russian side had reached with the Chinese side with the RD-93 engine assembled together "Fierce Dragon" aircraft to a third country exports agreement, but also from President Vladimir Putin personally decided. 《国际先驱导报》记者向胡问鸣求证了上述说法，他说：“昨天刚拿到了许可的文件，现在俄方已同意‘枭龙’可以出口到包括巴基斯坦在内的１０个国家”。 "International Herald Tribune" reporter asked Mr Wong to verify the above statement, he said : "Yesterday just received permission from the document, and now Russia has agreed to 'Fierce Dragon' can be exported to Pakistan in 10 countries."
据业内人士分析，“枭龙”在国际市场其他潜在客户还包括孟加拉国、伊朗、埃及、尼日利亚以及其它亚非国家，甚至一些拉美国家也有可能购买。 According to industry insiders, "Xiaolong" in the international market other potential customers, including Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt, Nigeria and other Asian and African countries, and even some Latin American countries may also be purchased. 胡问鸣说，目前已有两架“枭龙”交付巴基斯坦，今年还将继续交付六架。 Hu asked Wong said there are two "Xiaolong" to Pakistan this year, will continue to deliver 6.
此前，巴基斯坦防务专家塔拉特·马苏德中将在北京接受《国际先驱导报》采访时表示，一架全新的Ｆ－１６的售价大约为３０００万美元，而巴方订购的“枭龙”战机价格约为每架８００万美元。 Earlier, Pakistani territorial defense experts in Beijing will accept the "International Herald Tribune" he said, a new F-16 costs about 30 million US dollars, and ordered the Palestinian side "Fierce Dragon" fighter planes for about eight million US dollars. 考虑到巴基斯坦投资参与了此前的研制工作，所以“枭龙”面向其他国家的售价估计在１０００万到１５００万美元之间。 With regard to Pakistan's participation in the previous development work, "Fierce Dragon" for other countries is estimated at 10 to 15 million US dollars between. 即便如此，仍然远低于Ｆ－16。 Even so, still far below the F-16.
By: Kaduna2003
- 28th August 2007 at 16:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting development that brings out some questions:
This 'Raad' ASM flies 300+ km and is light enough to be carried by a Mirage III? Is there any such missile worldover?
Yes. Its called the Raad.
Most ASMs with such ranges (300km+) weigh well over a 1000kgs.
The US AGM86 weighs 1400kg and has a range of 3000km. So what should be the weight of a cruise missile with a range of 350km? i dont know exactly but it would be a lot less then 1400kg i would think.
the Brahmos weighs about 2500kg.
2500kg weight for brahmos with a range of 300km? thats one fat missile! Are you sure you got the right weight and are not mixing pounds and kilos?
So, surely the Mirage III can hardly be the platform for this weapon? Also, what kind of guidance does this beast use esp. for such huge ranges, esp. if it is to be used for anti-shipping roles as some of the reports have suggested - INS/GPS+Datalink (for midcourse) and then radar homing in terminal phase?
Regards,
USS.
As far as i know, the mirage centre pylon can carry around 850kgs. That should be more then enough for carrying Raad. Im not sure about the use to attack ships. Given that it looks like a mini version of babur, i think it would be more for ground attack use with similar guidance - terrain matching and GPS. I have not read any reports of sea trials of this as yet so doubt the sea version claim.
By: uss novice
- 28th August 2007 at 21:34Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes. Its called the Raad.
Right, chalk up another "world's first" for the PAF.
The US AGM86 weighs 1400kg and has a range of 3000km. So what should be the weight of a cruise missile with a range of 350km? i dont know exactly but it would be a lot less then 1400kg i would think.
Nice point, so pakistan is now producing AGM86 types :eek: which perhaps only its f16s could carry (i believe thats the only a/c in their inventory that can carry upto 3000lbs max payload).
2500kg weight for brahmos with a range of 300km? thats one fat missile! Are you sure you got the right weight and are not mixing pounds and kilos?
Nope, its a BIG missile, but it flies almost @ Mach 3. And it takes just about 1 of them to sink a decent sized ship.
As far as i know, the mirage centre pylon can carry around 850kgs. That should be more then enough for carrying Raad. Im not sure about the use to attack ships. Given that it looks like a mini version of babur, i think it would be more for ground attack use with similar guidance - terrain matching and GPS. I have not read any reports of sea trials of this as yet so doubt the sea version claim.
The RAAD is an amazing acheivement to say the least.
By: Farooq
- 28th August 2007 at 23:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Right, chalk up another "world's first" for the PAF.
Not really.
Missile--------- Weight------------ Range--------- Payload
TAURUS------- appx.1400 kg------- 300+ km------ 500kg
SCALP-------- appx. 1300 kg------ 250+ km ------ 450kg
TORGOS------ 980 kg------------- 300 km ------- 450kg
(TORGOS Carried by Cheetah) http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/weapons/61/torgos-cruise-missile
It shares guidance system with Babur according to official release. It's not anti-ship weapon but intended for strategic use (bunkers,runways,ports,command centers etc)
Drop Tanks 625 L drop tank with 499kg of fuel for 96nm of range
1300 L drop tank with 1038kg of fuel for 199 nm of range
1700 L drop tank with 1358 kg of fuel for 260 nm of range
Drop Tanks 625 L drop tank with 499kg of fuel for 96nm of range
1300 L drop tank with 1038kg of fuel for 199 nm of range
1700 L drop tank with 1358 kg of fuel for 260 nm of range
Thanks. i stand corrected. centre pylon can carry around 1400kgs.
By: Kaduna2003
- 29th August 2007 at 00:08Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nice point, so pakistan is now producing AGM86 types :eek: which perhaps only its f16s could carry (i believe thats the only a/c in their inventory that can carry upto 3000lbs max payload).
You did notice that AGM86's range is 3000km and not 300? How does that mean pak is producing AGM86 types???
The RAAD is an amazing acheivement to say the least.
Regards,
USS.
Well, it's just the next logical step after Babur.
Posts: 115
By: George_nkl - 30th June 2007 at 17:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Although a bit off topic, would anyone have pictures of the lebanese Mirages, upon delivery, or later after their integration to the PAF?
Posts: 414
By: Kaduna2003 - 30th June 2007 at 17:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry about the mixup. Slovenia indeed.
Posts: 28
By: Saeed Khan - 30th June 2007 at 19:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Posts: 115
By: George_nkl - 1st July 2007 at 15:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Saeed Khan, very interesting pictures!
Posts: 148
By: MiG_Master - 10th July 2007 at 17:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
New F-16s Delivered
Its a bit early, i Have just got the news that 02 F-16s have landed at sarghoda(Mushaf AFB) delivered from USA, with 10 more shall be delivered at end of this year or early next year.
may be somebody else come up with more info?
Regards,
Posts: 75
By: Avid Aviator - 11th July 2007 at 08:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
MUSHAF BASE, July 10: The United States on Tuesday started the long-awaited delivery of F-16 aircraft to Pakistan when two of the `Fighter Falcons’ were handed over to the Pakistan Air Force.
The handing over ceremony was held at the PAF base near Sargodha where two F-16s landed after being directly flown from the US.
Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed, US Ambassador to Pakistan Anne W. Peterson and a large number of senior officers of the PAF attended the ceremony.
Commander of Central Air Command of US Air Force Lt-Gen Gary L. North, along with a colleague, flew the aircraft and reached here after a continuous flight of over eight hours across the Atlantic.
The handing over marked the beginning of the programme for the delivery of the fleet of a dozen aircraft to Pakistan. These aircraft were manufactured in 1990s and their delivery to Pakistan was stopped following imposition of the Pressler Amendment.
Later, these were given to the US air force and navy.
Talking to APP, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed said that the remaining 10 aircraft would be given to Pakistan in batches till the middle of next year.
“These are exceptionally used aircraft and are being given to us at very nominal prices,” he said.
He said the delivery of the aircraft to Pakistan was only possible after hectic negotiations with the US Air Force.
In addition to these aircraft, he said, efforts were in hand to get 16 more aircraft which were in the use of US Navy and these were part of the 28 aircraft for which Pakistan had made the payment.
In the meantime, he said, offers had been made by the US Administration to get the similar number of aircraft being used by the US Navy from the US National Guards. —APP
Posts: 263
By: Usman - 24th July 2007 at 14:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Additional high-resolution images from Anatolian Eagle 2007 Exercise have been added: http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/gallery/index.html
Posts: 263
By: Usman - 25th August 2007 at 20:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mirage-IIIEA
Pakistan conducted test of a new cruise missile today from an ROSE-I upgraded Mirage-IIIEA (5xx serial meaning an ex-Aussie bird): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNppgV7tFk
Posts: 143
By: griffin_pak - 25th August 2007 at 20:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
hey whats the range for this one (air launched) versus ground launched?
thanks
Posts: 1,877
By: 21Ankush - 26th August 2007 at 09:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Usman, are you the Usman Ansari who wrote an article on the JF-17 in Combat Aircraft's latest issue ?
Posts: 263
By: Usman - 26th August 2007 at 16:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No. That's another Usman.
Posts: 58
By: khanasifm - 26th August 2007 at 20:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Looks like (Shape) BK m/90, Bombkapsel m/90, Mjölner. Gliding bomblet dispenser. (600 kg)
Mirage center pylon max limit is 800kg + pylon
http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-ALCM-Dec-04-PA.pdf
http://www.defense-update.com/products/k/KEPD350.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/taurus.htm
http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/mjolner.htm
Posts: 1,071
By: uss novice - 28th August 2007 at 00:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting development that brings out some questions:
This 'Raad' ASM flies 300+ km and is light enough to be carried by a Mirage III? Is there any such missile worldover? Most ASMs with such ranges (300km+) weigh well over a 1000kgs. The Scalp EG, taurus weighs close to 1300/1400 kgs, so does the Klub, the Brahmos weighs about 2500kg. The older ones such as the Harpoons, Sea Eagles, Exocets, Kh 31s all weigh from around 500-700 kgs with corresponding ranges of about 100-200 km. So, surely the Mirage III can hardly be the platform for this weapon? Also, what kind of guidance does this beast use esp. for such huge ranges, esp. if it is to be used for anti-shipping roles as some of the reports have suggested - INS/GPS+Datalink (for midcourse) and then radar homing in terminal phase?
Anyone have any answers?
Regards,
USS.
Posts: 179
By: lightning F57 - 28th August 2007 at 00:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You raise some good questions, what I had gathered was this isnt a ASM but a cruise missile for land attack purposes. I think the Pakistan armed forces are equipping it on their fighter jets, ships ect. They cant fit the Babur on planes with its current length and dimensions, so I presume they have made it smaller for the Mirages to be able to launch.
Posts: 58
By: khanasifm - 28th August 2007 at 03:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
U.S. pilot tested "Xiaolong"
新华网 （ 2007-08-27 08:59:25 ） Xinhuanet (2007-08-27 08:59:25) 来源： 国际先驱导报 Source : International Herald Tribune
美国空军Ｆ－１６战斗机飞行员杰森·克莱门茨在“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器上操作。 Air Force F-16 fighter pilots Jiesenkelai come in "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator operation. 赵嘉麟/摄 Kyrgyzstan and / perturbation
“枭龙”战斗机模型。 "Fierce Dragon" fighter plane model. 赵嘉麟/摄 Kyrgyzstan and / perturbation
“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器在俄罗斯航展上成为众人跃跃欲试的焦点，美国飞行员也拿它与F-16作对比 "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator in Russia show everyone eager to become the focus of an American pilot carries it with the F-16 for comparison
国际先驱导报记者赵嘉麟发自莫斯科 “感觉不错，一些主要功能和Ｆ－１６相差不多！”杰森·克莱门茨兴致勃勃地在“枭龙”模拟器上操作了５分钟后，对《国际先驱导报》这样说道。 International Herald Tribune old friend from Moscow, "I feel good, and some of the major functions of the F-16 are very similar!" Jiesenkelai door visit to Mainz in "Fierce Dragon" on the operation of the simulator five minutes later, the "International Herald Tribune" so said. 这位美国空军Ｆ－１６战斗机飞行员操纵自如的表现引来不少参观者围观。 The Air Force F-16 fighter pilots maneuverability performance attracted a large crowd of visitors.
俄罗斯第八届国际航空航天展览会8月２１日开幕当天，中国航空工业第一集团公司展区中的“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器成为了参观者眼中的“明星”。 Russian eighth international aerospace exhibition on August 21 opening day, the China Aviation Industry Corporation I galleries of the "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator into the eyes of the visitors for the "Star."
数字化功能令人印象深刻 Digital function impressive
《国际先驱导报》记者在展会现场看到，“枭龙”训练模拟器的正前方墙上悬挂三块大型彩色液晶屏，模拟座舱内的视野。 "International Herald Tribune" at the exhibition site, "Xiaolong" training simulator is the front wall of three large color LCD screen, simulated cockpit of vision. 它们上方还挂着两块稍小的彩屏，分别显示飞机的空中姿态和地面的情况。 They also hung over the two smaller screen, showed the plane's air posture and the situation on the ground.
训练模拟器本身，无论从外观大小，还是内部设置，都是模拟真实飞机座舱而建，只不过没有舱盖。 Training Simulator itself, in terms of exterior size, or internal settings are simulated real aircraft cabin built, it is not hatch. 成都飞机设计研究所工程师贺卫东告诉《国际先驱导报》：“此次展出的是中国惟一一台，也是最基础的‘枭龙’训练模拟器，生产方可根据客户需求加装必要设备。建造一台普通‘枭龙’训练模拟器的花费在数千万元人民币。该模拟器可演练航空、作战等多项任务，能够帮助飞行员熟悉不同飞行高度、距离和方位，以及感知态势。” Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute engineers Fa told the "International Herald Tribune" : "This exhibition is only one Taiwan, but also the most basic 'Fierce Dragon' training simulator, production may, in accordance with customer needs to install the necessary equipment. The construction of an ordinary 'Fierce Dragon' Training Simulator thousands spent 10,000 yuan. The simulator can drill aviation, combat tasks that can help pilots familiar with the different altitude, distance and orientation, perception and momentum. "
亲身体验了“枭龙”的杰森在谈起它与美军Ｆ－１６战机的区别时，也特别提到了前者座舱内操作面板上的三块多功能显示屏，并大加赞赏。 Experience the "Fierce Dragon" Jason talked about it with the U.S. F-16 fighter distinction, also made special mention of the former cockpit panels operating on the three multi-function display, and much appreciated. 他认为，此外，“两者在操纵杆和其他仪器布局方面也有所不同”。 He believes that, "Both the joystick and other equipment layout is also different." 他微笑着告诉记者：“因为时间太短，没有熟悉‘枭龙’全部功能，因此我没办法完全比较两种战机的性能。不过，你们这款战斗机的数字化功能令我印象深刻。” He smiled and told reporters : "Because of the shortness of time, not familiar with the 'Fierce Dragon' full functionality, I can not fully compare the performance of the two fighters. However, your new fighter digital functions impressed me deeply. "
中国一航副总经理胡问鸣对《国际先驱导报》表示，“枭龙”在火控系统和操纵灵活性等方面表现不俗，但在续航能力和高度方面与Ｆ－１６还有差距。 An Air China asked Hu Ming, deputy general manager of the "International Herald Tribune", "Xiaolong" fire-control system and the flexibility of manipulation good performance, but in life and with a height of the F-16 is still lagging behind.
机动性能强 Mobility -
贺卫东向记者指出，熟练的飞行员在空中完成从发现目标到将其击中的一系列动作只有几十秒，“反应的速度要像打乒乓球那样快”。 Fa told reporters that skilled pilots in the air from detection of the target to be hit in a series of moves only seconds, "the speed of response, like playing table tennis as fast." “为了抓住稍纵即逝的战机，战斗机研制单位大都通过提高飞机机动性来争取更多一点的时间，‘枭龙’也不例外。” "In order to seize the fleeting aircraft, fighter development units mostly through increased mobility aircraft to fight for a little more time, 'Fierce Dragon' is no exception."
在得到参展单位许可后，《国际先驱导报》记者也进入“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器，并在工作人员指导下“试飞”。 With the permission of the exhibitors, "International Herald Tribune" reporter also entered the "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator, and the staff under the guidance of "flight." 原来，驾驶“枭龙”真是名副其实的全身运动：双脚要控制地面滑行时的方向，以及完成着陆后的制动；作手负责加减速度，右手通过操纵杆控制飞行高度和姿态，以及武器发射等。 Originally, the driving "Xiaolong" It's truly systemic Movement : feet to the ground control and swerved in the direction, and the completion of the brake after landing; Modified responsible for the hand speed, the right hand by a joystick control altitude and attitude and weapons firing. 当然，这只不过是最基本的内容。 Of course, this is only the most basic elements. 实际飞行时，飞行员还要承受战机完成各种动作时对身体产生的各种影响。 The actual flying hours, fighter pilots to endure all kinds of physical action at the various implications.
记者顺利从“跑道”起飞升空，并在工作人员帮助下在空中完成了一个筋斗动作。 Xinhua smoothly from the "runway" take-off and expected to help staff in the air and completed a somersault movements. 不过，降落时，却遇到了不小的麻烦。 However, when landing, but encountered a lot of trouble. 即便在工作人员帮助下不断调整姿态，记者“着陆”时，最终还是滑出了“跑道”。 Even in the work of helping to continually adjust its posture and press "landing", or skidded off the end of the "runway."
价格远低于F－16 The price far below the F-16
“枭龙”由中国和巴基斯坦联合研制，中方称ＦＣ－１，巴方则称ＪＦ－１７“雷电”战斗机。 "Fierce Dragon" from China and Pakistan, the joint development, the Chinese side said the FC - 1, said the Palestinian side JF-17 "Thunder and Lightning" fighter. 对于中方来说，这是第一种完全基于市场需要而研制的战机。 As far as China is concerned, this is the first one based solely on the needs of the market and the development of warplanes.
此前有报道称，由于俄罗斯官员不允许中国将装有俄制ＲＤ－９３型发动机的“枭龙”出售给巴基斯坦，因此，外界对于这款战斗机的命运一度颇多猜测。 Earlier, there were reports that Russian officials will not permit China with Russian RD-93 engine, "Xiaolong" sold to Pakistan, therefore, the outside world for the fate of this aircraft was a lot of speculation. 而俄罗斯《生意人报》今年４月报道称，俄方已同中方达成了用ＲＤ－９３型发动机共同组装“枭龙”战机并向第三国出口的协议，而且得益于普京总统亲自拍板。 While Russia, "Kommersant" in April this year reported that the Russian side had reached with the Chinese side with the RD-93 engine assembled together "Fierce Dragon" aircraft to a third country exports agreement, but also from President Vladimir Putin personally decided. 《国际先驱导报》记者向胡问鸣求证了上述说法，他说：“昨天刚拿到了许可的文件，现在俄方已同意‘枭龙’可以出口到包括巴基斯坦在内的１０个国家”。 "International Herald Tribune" reporter asked Mr Wong to verify the above statement, he said : "Yesterday just received permission from the document, and now Russia has agreed to 'Fierce Dragon' can be exported to Pakistan in 10 countries."
据业内人士分析，“枭龙”在国际市场其他潜在客户还包括孟加拉国、伊朗、埃及、尼日利亚以及其它亚非国家，甚至一些拉美国家也有可能购买。 According to industry insiders, "Xiaolong" in the international market other potential customers, including Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt, Nigeria and other Asian and African countries, and even some Latin American countries may also be purchased. 胡问鸣说，目前已有两架“枭龙”交付巴基斯坦，今年还将继续交付六架。 Hu asked Wong said there are two "Xiaolong" to Pakistan this year, will continue to deliver 6.
此前，巴基斯坦防务专家塔拉特·马苏德中将在北京接受《国际先驱导报》采访时表示，一架全新的Ｆ－１６的售价大约为３０００万美元，而巴方订购的“枭龙”战机价格约为每架８００万美元。 Earlier, Pakistani territorial defense experts in Beijing will accept the "International Herald Tribune" he said, a new F-16 costs about 30 million US dollars, and ordered the Palestinian side "Fierce Dragon" fighter planes for about eight million US dollars. 考虑到巴基斯坦投资参与了此前的研制工作，所以“枭龙”面向其他国家的售价估计在１０００万到１５００万美元之间。 With regard to Pakistan's participation in the previous development work, "Fierce Dragon" for other countries is estimated at 10 to 15 million US dollars between. 即便如此，仍然远低于Ｆ－16。 Even so, still far below the F-16.
Posts: 414
By: Kaduna2003 - 28th August 2007 at 16:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes. Its called the Raad.
The US AGM86 weighs 1400kg and has a range of 3000km. So what should be the weight of a cruise missile with a range of 350km? i dont know exactly but it would be a lot less then 1400kg i would think.
2500kg weight for brahmos with a range of 300km? thats one fat missile! Are you sure you got the right weight and are not mixing pounds and kilos?
As far as i know, the mirage centre pylon can carry around 850kgs. That should be more then enough for carrying Raad. Im not sure about the use to attack ships. Given that it looks like a mini version of babur, i think it would be more for ground attack use with similar guidance - terrain matching and GPS. I have not read any reports of sea trials of this as yet so doubt the sea version claim.
Posts: 1,071
By: uss novice - 28th August 2007 at 21:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Right, chalk up another "world's first" for the PAF.
Nice point, so pakistan is now producing AGM86 types :eek: which perhaps only its f16s could carry (i believe thats the only a/c in their inventory that can carry upto 3000lbs max payload).
Nope, its a BIG missile, but it flies almost @ Mach 3. And it takes just about 1 of them to sink a decent sized ship.
The RAAD is an amazing acheivement to say the least.
Regards,
USS.
Posts: 230
By: Farooq - 28th August 2007 at 23:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not really.
Missile--------- Weight------------ Range--------- Payload
TAURUS------- appx.1400 kg------- 300+ km------ 500kg
SCALP-------- appx. 1300 kg------ 250+ km ------ 450kg
TORGOS------ 980 kg------------- 300 km ------- 450kg
(TORGOS Carried by Cheetah)
http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/weapons/61/torgos-cruise-missile
It shares guidance system with Babur according to official release. It's not anti-ship weapon but intended for strategic use (bunkers,runways,ports,command centers etc)
KADUNA,
MirageIII drop tanks: (I believe the bigger ones must be for centerline only)
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mirage-5.htm
Drop Tanks 625 L drop tank with 499kg of fuel for 96nm of range
1300 L drop tank with 1038kg of fuel for 199 nm of range
1700 L drop tank with 1358 kg of fuel for 260 nm of range
Posts: 414
By: Kaduna2003 - 29th August 2007 at 00:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks. i stand corrected. centre pylon can carry around 1400kgs.
Posts: 414
By: Kaduna2003 - 29th August 2007 at 00:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You did notice that AGM86's range is 3000km and not 300? How does that mean pak is producing AGM86 types???
Well, it's just the next logical step after Babur.