This is the story that just keeps on giving, as each passing day goes by rather then evidence, we see the entire narrative slowly start to fall apart. Now IAF Chief refusing to back Indian Government claims, he had the chance to talk about the F-16 "downing" but.
Yup, the IAF chief and the Wing Co all very quiet on the shoot down now it seems. May have dawned on them it is easy to prove Pak AF's F-16 fleet, also if it was a "D" version, we only have 6 of them, so could line them all up in a few hours.
Like the strike this totally fell apart. I am still waiting for Panzerfiest to comeback to us on the whole "London based Lawyers Facebook message that had a call from someone in Pakistan". Apparently by questioning that claim I was engaging in "damage limitation". :rolleyes:
By: vikasrehman
- 4th March 2019 at 12:40Permalink
IAF chief asked if we had dropped bombs in jungle, why did they (PAF) respond?
Is this for real? Coming from IAF chief? In light of Ind-Pak context. Or does this imply that had PAF violated Indian airspace, dropped a few bombs in uninhabited areas (before any Indian strikes), then IAF would have just ignored that? If the answer is no, what makes him think that PAF would ignore them? Remember, India is no USA.
Again, both IAF and PAF strikes were largely symbolic meant to convey certain messages to each other. With Indian govt using IAF strikes to gain political advantage, they encouraged rumours and war mongering, or at the least they did nothing to correct certain notions. With the dust settling down, people have started to raise questions. If situation improves, there would be more questions for Modi govt. This is one of the reasons, why I don't expect de-escalation to happen quickly. Modi govt does not want to face tough questions for now, and continuation of hostilities serves them better until elections are over.
By: MaximumG
- 4th March 2019 at 14:45Permalink- Edited 4th March 2019 at 14:50
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
There is no back-tracking of any sort.
The 300-350 figure was given out by the Indian media not government or IAF.
The IAF has said that targets were hit and they do not know about causalities.
The quotes from your link are from an Indian Minister of State for Electronics and I.T. Minister of state means a junior minister or a deputy minister. He was replying to opposition allegations against the P.M and was not speaking in his capacity as minister but as a figure of the ruling party.
What is official is this : IAF has hit targets in Balakot deep inside Pakistan. Number of casualties are not known.
IAF may or may not release footage of the strike in the coming weeks.
We must understand that we are not the target audience, it's the masses, the electorate in India, who can't tell the difference between B-2 and Mig-21.
It's right of IAF to shift the on us on to civilian authorities. They were given the targets, they delivered the payload there. It's not their duty to prop up the false narrative as a professional force, let the professional politicians and hysterical media do it.
We must understand that we are not the target audience, it's the masses, the electorate in India, who can't tell the difference between B-2 and Mig-21.
It's right of IAF to shift the on us on to civilian authorities. They were given the targets, they delivered the payload there. It's not their duty to prop up the false narrative as a professional force, let the professional politicians and hysterical media do it.
I could not agree more.
Now it is up to the Indian electorate to question their civilian leadership's narrative. In new India, however, this would not be an easy task, as indicated by a recent video in which a mob of 100 odd right wing students forced their professor to kneel down and apologise for wuestioning official Indian line. One expects such events in authoritarian regimes such as China, or democracies controlled by military such as Pakistan, but not in the largest secular democracy in the world.
By: vikasrehman
- 6th March 2019 at 00:43Permalink
Could you pls provide?
I'll try looking for them (the ones without any gruesome images and allegedly showing the parachute/s) and share. But if you just look for JF-17 related vids uploaded on YouTube over the last week, you will find some.
The US State Department has said that America is seeking more information from Pakistan on the potential misuse of American-made F-16 fighter jets by it against India in violation of the end user agreement.
"We've seen those reports and we're following that issue very closely," US State Department Deputy Spokesperson Robert Palladino told reporters at his biweekly news conference on Tuesday.
The US might be interested to know how the PAF shot down a Su-30MKI, if true of course.
I am beggining to doubt the SU-30 shoot down, why no evidence? Even if it was an F-16 that did it, surely by staying in Pak air space we were within our rights?
Also does this not leave India in a blind? IAF denied PAF entered their air space, now they claim F-16s did. It is just one wave of BS after another from these guys....
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By: moon_light - 4th March 2019 at 12:17 Permalink
Will they interview the Mig-21 chief?
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By: Alpha Bravo - 4th March 2019 at 12:19 Permalink
Not if he didn't shoot down the F-16
Posts: 100
By: Mags76 - 4th March 2019 at 12:29 Permalink
Yup, the IAF chief and the Wing Co all very quiet on the shoot down now it seems. May have dawned on them it is easy to prove Pak AF's F-16 fleet, also if it was a "D" version, we only have 6 of them, so could line them all up in a few hours.
Like the strike this totally fell apart. I am still waiting for Panzerfiest to comeback to us on the whole "London based Lawyers Facebook message that had a call from someone in Pakistan". Apparently by questioning that claim I was engaging in "damage limitation". :rolleyes:
Posts: 1,615
By: vikasrehman - 4th March 2019 at 12:40 Permalink
IAF chief asked if we had dropped bombs in jungle, why did they (PAF) respond?
Is this for real? Coming from IAF chief? In light of Ind-Pak context. Or does this imply that had PAF violated Indian airspace, dropped a few bombs in uninhabited areas (before any Indian strikes), then IAF would have just ignored that? If the answer is no, what makes him think that PAF would ignore them? Remember, India is no USA.
Again, both IAF and PAF strikes were largely symbolic meant to convey certain messages to each other. With Indian govt using IAF strikes to gain political advantage, they encouraged rumours and war mongering, or at the least they did nothing to correct certain notions. With the dust settling down, people have started to raise questions. If situation improves, there would be more questions for Modi govt. This is one of the reasons, why I don't expect de-escalation to happen quickly. Modi govt does not want to face tough questions for now, and continuation of hostilities serves them better until elections are over.
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By: TomcatViP - 4th March 2019 at 13:55 Permalink
So far I wonder if we can agree that PAK probably reacted with a Ramrod.:They did get after the IAF using Mirage III as bait.
Posts: 60
By: MaximumG - 4th March 2019 at 14:45 Permalink - Edited 4th March 2019 at 14:50
Media cited "Govt sources", instance:
https://m.economictimes.com/news/def...w/68165466.cms
We must understand that we are not the target audience, it's the masses, the electorate in India, who can't tell the difference between B-2 and Mig-21.
It's right of IAF to shift the on us on to civilian authorities. They were given the targets, they delivered the payload there. It's not their duty to prop up the false narrative as a professional force, let the professional politicians and hysterical media do it.
Posts: 1,615
By: vikasrehman - 4th March 2019 at 17:34 Permalink
I could not agree more.
Now it is up to the Indian electorate to question their civilian leadership's narrative. In new India, however, this would not be an easy task, as indicated by a recent video in which a mob of 100 odd right wing students forced their professor to kneel down and apologise for wuestioning official Indian line. One expects such events in authoritarian regimes such as China, or democracies controlled by military such as Pakistan, but not in the largest secular democracy in the world.
Posts: 1,615
By: vikasrehman - 5th March 2019 at 00:22 Permalink - Edited 5th March 2019 at 00:23
I have seen a couple of videos of parachutes comes down. Does anyone know if there are any more such videos?
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By: MadRat - 5th March 2019 at 04:08 Permalink
The latest is that no AIM-120C5 was fired at any MiG-21Bison, but there was a pair fired at a Flanker.
The MiG-21 pilot fired missiles at what is believed to be an F-16, but was more likely a JF-17. The MiG-21Bison was shot down by an ambush of SAMs.
Posts: 412
By: Buran - 5th March 2019 at 04:28 Permalink
Can someone confirm if amongst the Mig 21 wreckage this is the front section of R-73?
How many are carried on IAF Mig21 as a typical CAP load?
Posts: 412
By: Buran - 5th March 2019 at 04:51 Permalink
While you are at it. Is this similar to a part/booster section of the Raptor / H4 glide bomb used by PAF?
This was found in Kashmir, date uncertain.
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By: Alpha Bravo - 5th March 2019 at 09:21 Permalink
Certainly seems to be the booster section of a Raptor SOW
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By: haavarla - 5th March 2019 at 15:28 Permalink
Could you pls provide?
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By: vikasrehman - 6th March 2019 at 00:43 Permalink
I'll try looking for them (the ones without any gruesome images and allegedly showing the parachute/s) and share. But if you just look for JF-17 related vids uploaded on YouTube over the last week, you will find some.
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By: mig-31bm - 6th March 2019 at 01:51 Permalink
For a fraction of a second, i thought they shot down Raptor, the fighter
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By: quadbike - 6th March 2019 at 05:57 Permalink
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By: Mags76 - 6th March 2019 at 09:05 Permalink
https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ani/shares-of-jf-17-plane-maker-s-sister-company-in-china-surged-after-former-pak-officer-s-tweet-report-119030300160_1.html
Posts: 60
By: MaximumG - 6th March 2019 at 10:06 Permalink
Foreign journalists find holes in Indian narrative on F-16 usage, Balakot strike:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1467971/foreign-journalists-find-holes-in-indian-narrative-on-f-16-usage-balakot-strike
Posts: 498
By: Alpha Bravo - 6th March 2019 at 10:15 Permalink
The US might be interested to know how the PAF shot down a Su-30MKI, if true of course.
Posts: 100
By: Mags76 - 6th March 2019 at 10:18 Permalink
I am beggining to doubt the SU-30 shoot down, why no evidence? Even if it was an F-16 that did it, surely by staying in Pak air space we were within our rights?
Also does this not leave India in a blind? IAF denied PAF entered their air space, now they claim F-16s did. It is just one wave of BS after another from these guys....