By: rumcajs
- 29th November 2013 at 09:11Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Czech Air Force will sell 28 stored L159A into USA. Draken International offers about 500 mil. Czech Crowns for 28 examples. Czech government will decide about sale conditions during december.
add
It looks like Draken Int. already has three ex CzAF L159As which were sold few months ago by EADS to US company Hexadyne. Hexadyne sold the planes to "unknown" company in the USA, so now Draken knows what can buy.
By: rumcajs
- 11th December 2013 at 11:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aero Vodochody is working on new trainer and light attack aircraft Aero L-169 ATJ. The prototype's existence was officially announced. It's two seater advanced trainer made on L-159 base with new wings, strictly czech electronics and avionics and it can be fitted with ukrainian or US engine (till not specified yet). Actually it's result of many US L-159 sale obstruction causes...
By: eagle
- 12th December 2013 at 02:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No more wing tip tanks on the new wings?
I like the L-159, it's pretty loud for such a small jet. I wish Austria would get some to replace the old Saab 105 fleet.
By: rumcajs
- 12th December 2013 at 11:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yes it's official render. Yea no more wing tips tanks, because L-169 will get new "wet" wings with internal tanks, so it has longer flying range than L-159A
New
By: Anonymous
- 14th December 2013 at 14:23Permalink- Edited 20th April 2023 at 10:37
I wish they put wing with higher sweep angle on L-169... Also, some nose rebuild in order to put bigger radar there will be nice, but probaly it (new nose) will cost too much.
By: rumcajs
- 14th December 2013 at 14:53Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I wish they put wing with higher sweep angle on L-169... Also, some nose rebuild in order to put bigger radar there will be nice, but probaly it (new nose) will cost too much.
well they already thought about new arrowy wing for L-159 in Aero, but they found out that it would be new plane actually, so it was cancelled for presumptive huge financial budget.
By: MadRat
- 14th December 2013 at 21:13Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Compared to the Scorpion, the L-169 wing looks nicer.
A morph between the two would be cool. L-169 nose and low wing placement mated to twin micro jets and the twin tails. The best looking features of each one.
By: sheytanelkebir
- 24th March 2014 at 13:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This weekend Iraqi Air Force Negotiators returned to Czech Republic to discuss the urgent purchase of 12 L159s due to Iraq's desperate need for immediate air support for ongoing military operations.
This is separate to Iraq's T50IQ purchase.
and some blurb from czech media.
So these will be some OFF THE SHELF single seaters with rapid delivery.
By: rumcajs
- 27th March 2014 at 03:27Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This weekend Iraqi Air Force Negotiators returned to Czech Republic to discuss the urgent purchase of 12 L159s due to Iraq's desperate need for immediate air support for ongoing military operations.
This is separate to Iraq's T50IQ purchase.
and some blurb from czech media.
So these will be some OFF THE SHELF single seaters with rapid delivery.
Seeing the price that Aero offered these to the US (about $900K!)... I hope the Iraqis can get a nice "bargain".
interesting, but Iraq is realy "serious" partner. Second, these L-159As are property of the Czech air force, not of Aero. Third, Draken International want to buy 24 plus 4 stored planes, so I guess Iraqis are out of luck now. Personaly, I will send them to the hell :-)
By: sheytanelkebir
- 27th March 2014 at 10:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
interesting, but Iraq is realy "serious" partner. Second, these L-159As are property of the Czech air force, not of Aero. Third, Draken International want to buy 24 plus 4 stored planes, so I guess Iraqis are out of luck now. Personaly, I will send them to the hell :-)
Well selling them to Iraq will give them their baptism of fire pretty soon.
Of course they would be better off buying some second hand Su25s for the urgent CO-IN requirement... but who has any spare SU25s nowadays? and the FA50s will take another 2 years to arrive... so they do need some "stop gap" for now.
If they do get some L159s, and there are already dozens of Iraqi pilots who trained on L39s (well at least 10-12 years ago) so getting them converted shouldn't take too long.
By: Fedaykin
- 27th March 2014 at 11:32Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
interesting, but Iraq is realy "serious" partner. Second, these L-159As are property of the Czech air force, not of Aero. Third, Draken International want to buy 24 plus 4 stored planes, so I guess Iraqis are out of luck now. Personaly, I will send them to the hell :-)
Well how much does the Czech government want to see an export sale of the L-159A? As I understand it 72 were built so even with those being operated by the Czech airforce and sold to Draken international that leaves many that could be hot swapped to Iraq very quickly. An actual sale of the L-159A to Iraq could be the lifeblood to support a next generation model. The Serbian government treated their sale of the Lasta-95 as a priority over the needs of their airforce. If Iraq is desperate I can see the Czech government wanting this sown up, if most of the ground work was done before the Iraqi's got cold feet then this could move very quickly if both sides are prepared to sign the dotted line.
If this does happen I wonder what JSR will come up with to explain it away :highly_amused:
By: MadRat
- 27th March 2014 at 12:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A-10's, in light of their early retirement, should be a good option. They don't need DU slugs and Iraq is probably cleared to operate Maverick. Would be a good hearty airframe for the Iraqis to both battle insurgents and Iranian border violations.
By: rumcajs
- 27th March 2014 at 13:48Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well how much does the Czech government want to see an export sale of the L-159A? As I understand it 72 were built so even with those being operated by the Czech airforce and sold to Draken international that leaves many that could be hot swapped to Iraq very quickly. An actual sale of the L-159A to Iraq could be the lifeblood to support a next generation model. The Serbian government treated their sale of the Lasta-95 as a priority over the needs of their airforce. If Iraq is desperate I can see the Czech government wanting this sown up, if most of the ground work was done before the Iraqi's got cold feet then this could move very quickly if both sides are prepared to sign the dotted line.
If this does happen I wonder what JSR will come up with to explain it away :highly_amused:
Iraqies have no chance to get any stored L-159A if Draken will buy all 24 reserved planes. 72 minus two destroyed examples is 70. Minus 19 L-159A of CzAF, minus 12 planes used for 6 CzAF L-159T1, minus 4 planes reserved for future 2 CzAF L-159T2 (delivered date is planed in 2015), minus 24 planes for Draken mean only one stored L-159A is free (but Draken want to buy 24 plus 4 as source of spare parts)...
I am sure that Draken is much more serious business partner than Iraq, so I guess stored L-159s story will have obvious end...
By: Fedaykin
- 27th March 2014 at 14:22Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well if there are 19 being operated by the CzAF there are airframes available to Iraq. How important to the Czech government is the chance of a military export of the L-159A? As I said the Serbian airforce had to take second place with the Lasta-95 orders when there was chance of an export. How important are those L-159A to Czech national defence vs an export sale? Juggle the airframes in service and in storage to satisfy the Iraqi and American order followed by some new build possibly? They are single seater and the CzAF already operate the Gripen, I would take the capability hit personally.
By: rumcajs
- 27th March 2014 at 15:09Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well if there are 19 being operated by the CzAF there are airframes available to Iraq. How important to the Czech government is the chance of a military export of the L-159A? As I said the Serbian airforce had to take second place with the Lasta-95 orders when there was chance of an export. How important are those L-159A to Czech national defence vs an export sale? Juggle the airframes in service and in storage to satisfy the Iraqi and American order followed by some new build possibly? They are single seater and the CzAF already operate the Gripen, I would take the capability hit personally.
Jesus, man, do you think that selling of 1/3 of air force fleet is intelligent decision? even more selling to absolutely untrustworthy state? even more, at this time. Selling 12 L-159A of air force would mean total paralysis of 212. tactical squadron - only one squadron of CzAF with air-to-ground capability...
By: Fedaykin
- 27th March 2014 at 16:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well yes I do think its worth it, the UK did actually sell a significant proportion of its Typhoon fleet to service the Saudi Arabian contract. How is Iraq untrustworthy? They appear to pay up and are fairly firm in negotiations.
Does the Czech government want to export the L-159A or not?
By: rumcajs
- 27th March 2014 at 17:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well yes I do think its worth it, the UK did actually sell a significant proportion of its Typhoon fleet to service the Saudi Arabian contract. How is Iraq untrustworthy? They appear to pay up and are fairly firm in negotiations.
Does the Czech government want to export the L-159A or not?
yes, but stored, not in active service. Aero is interesting in selling brand new planes. Czech government has serious client - Draken International... Iraq is absolutely untrustworthy business partner, proof is L-159BQ contract, just promises, promises, promises, and after that just silence and... T-50 contract announcement. Nobody in the Czech republic trust to Iraq government about military contracts right now. Even more, Iraq sent to request and delegation to Aero (private company), but the stored planes are property of Czech army, realy serious partner. Finally, Czech government don´t need contract with Iraq, because Draken contract, Aero has no free L-159A or L-159T1 or T-159B... Czech government hasn´t money to replace 12 L-159A for brand new planes, so CzAF planes selling is absolutely nonsense. Iraq can buy new planes from Aero, highly gainful company right now, but Iraq has minimal chance to got used L-159A of Czech army...
By: Fedaykin
- 27th March 2014 at 19:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well I suppose we shall just have to see how this works out Rumcajs, unless you can tell me otherwise the Czech republic doesn't have an arms embargo against Iraq so however frustrating the prior messing about in respect of the earlier still born contract it boils down to money. If Iraq makes a good offer vs Draken international it would be hard to resist.
By: sheytanelkebir
- 28th March 2014 at 16:53Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
AFAIK Iraq's original "LIFT / attacker" contract was won by T50 against multiple other offers... the whole fiasco with the L159BQ was due to Iraqi internal government infighting and accountability. Iraqi MOD purchasing can be diplomatically described as "chaotic" and more accurately described as headless chickens running in a circle.
the current negotiation is for the stored single seater L159s which draken is also negotiating for.
Draken offered a measly $900K for them per unit.
I am sure the Iraqis can better that (and pay cash up front).
And thus the question arises... what is the status of the Draken contract now?
Would an Iraqi purchase of these second hand units open up the possibility for selling more new build units in future?
Last week the head of CATIC sales flew in to Baghdad to meet and make an offer to the Commander of the Iraqi Air Force. So the Czech "negotiations" may simply be a ruse to get CATIC to lower their prices / offer better delivery rate on JF17... though what the Iraqis are after now more than anything is immediate availability... and thus a major Pakistani Air Force commander was also in Baghdad last week to discuss things.
Posts: 581
By: rumcajs - 29th November 2013 at 09:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Czech Air Force will sell 28 stored L159A into USA. Draken International offers about 500 mil. Czech Crowns for 28 examples. Czech government will decide about sale conditions during december.
add
It looks like Draken Int. already has three ex CzAF L159As which were sold few months ago by EADS to US company Hexadyne. Hexadyne sold the planes to "unknown" company in the USA, so now Draken knows what can buy.
Posts: 581
By: rumcajs - 11th December 2013 at 11:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aero Vodochody is working on new trainer and light attack aircraft Aero L-169 ATJ. The prototype's existence was officially announced. It's two seater advanced trainer made on L-159 base with new wings, strictly czech electronics and avionics and it can be fitted with ukrainian or US engine (till not specified yet). Actually it's result of many US L-159 sale obstruction causes...
Posts: 2,271
By: eagle - 12th December 2013 at 02:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No more wing tip tanks on the new wings?
I like the L-159, it's pretty loud for such a small jet. I wish Austria would get some to replace the old Saab 105 fleet.
Posts: 7,989
By: PhantomII - 12th December 2013 at 08:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Isn't that just a photoshopped picture?
Posts: 581
By: rumcajs - 12th December 2013 at 11:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yes it's official render. Yea no more wing tips tanks, because L-169 will get new "wet" wings with internal tanks, so it has longer flying range than L-159A
By: Anonymous - 14th December 2013 at 14:23 Permalink - Edited 20th April 2023 at 10:37
I wish they put wing with higher sweep angle on L-169... Also, some nose rebuild in order to put bigger radar there will be nice, but probaly it (new nose) will cost too much.
Posts: 581
By: rumcajs - 14th December 2013 at 14:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
well they already thought about new arrowy wing for L-159 in Aero, but they found out that it would be new plane actually, so it was cancelled for presumptive huge financial budget.
Posts: 4,951
By: MadRat - 14th December 2013 at 21:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Compared to the Scorpion, the L-169 wing looks nicer.
A morph between the two would be cool. L-169 nose and low wing placement mated to twin micro jets and the twin tails. The best looking features of each one.
Posts: 783
By: sheytanelkebir - 24th March 2014 at 13:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This weekend Iraqi Air Force Negotiators returned to Czech Republic to discuss the urgent purchase of 12 L159s due to Iraq's desperate need for immediate air support for ongoing military operations.
This is separate to Iraq's T50IQ purchase.
and some blurb from czech media.
So these will be some OFF THE SHELF single seaters with rapid delivery.
http://praguepost.com/world-news/37916-hn-iraq-expresses-interest-in-czechs-mothballed-aircraft
Seeing the price that Aero offered these to the US (about $900K!)... I hope the Iraqis can get a nice "bargain".
Posts: 581
By: rumcajs - 27th March 2014 at 03:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
interesting, but Iraq is realy "serious" partner. Second, these L-159As are property of the Czech air force, not of Aero. Third, Draken International want to buy 24 plus 4 stored planes, so I guess Iraqis are out of luck now. Personaly, I will send them to the hell :-)
Posts: 783
By: sheytanelkebir - 27th March 2014 at 10:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well selling them to Iraq will give them their baptism of fire pretty soon.
Of course they would be better off buying some second hand Su25s for the urgent CO-IN requirement... but who has any spare SU25s nowadays? and the FA50s will take another 2 years to arrive... so they do need some "stop gap" for now.
If they do get some L159s, and there are already dozens of Iraqi pilots who trained on L39s (well at least 10-12 years ago) so getting them converted shouldn't take too long.
Posts: 5,267
By: Fedaykin - 27th March 2014 at 11:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well how much does the Czech government want to see an export sale of the L-159A? As I understand it 72 were built so even with those being operated by the Czech airforce and sold to Draken international that leaves many that could be hot swapped to Iraq very quickly. An actual sale of the L-159A to Iraq could be the lifeblood to support a next generation model. The Serbian government treated their sale of the Lasta-95 as a priority over the needs of their airforce. If Iraq is desperate I can see the Czech government wanting this sown up, if most of the ground work was done before the Iraqi's got cold feet then this could move very quickly if both sides are prepared to sign the dotted line.
If this does happen I wonder what JSR will come up with to explain it away :highly_amused:
Posts: 4,951
By: MadRat - 27th March 2014 at 12:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A-10's, in light of their early retirement, should be a good option. They don't need DU slugs and Iraq is probably cleared to operate Maverick. Would be a good hearty airframe for the Iraqis to both battle insurgents and Iranian border violations.
Posts: 581
By: rumcajs - 27th March 2014 at 13:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Iraqies have no chance to get any stored L-159A if Draken will buy all 24 reserved planes. 72 minus two destroyed examples is 70. Minus 19 L-159A of CzAF, minus 12 planes used for 6 CzAF L-159T1, minus 4 planes reserved for future 2 CzAF L-159T2 (delivered date is planed in 2015), minus 24 planes for Draken mean only one stored L-159A is free (but Draken want to buy 24 plus 4 as source of spare parts)...
I am sure that Draken is much more serious business partner than Iraq, so I guess stored L-159s story will have obvious end...
Posts: 5,267
By: Fedaykin - 27th March 2014 at 14:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well if there are 19 being operated by the CzAF there are airframes available to Iraq. How important to the Czech government is the chance of a military export of the L-159A? As I said the Serbian airforce had to take second place with the Lasta-95 orders when there was chance of an export. How important are those L-159A to Czech national defence vs an export sale? Juggle the airframes in service and in storage to satisfy the Iraqi and American order followed by some new build possibly? They are single seater and the CzAF already operate the Gripen, I would take the capability hit personally.
Posts: 581
By: rumcajs - 27th March 2014 at 15:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jesus, man, do you think that selling of 1/3 of air force fleet is intelligent decision? even more selling to absolutely untrustworthy state? even more, at this time. Selling 12 L-159A of air force would mean total paralysis of 212. tactical squadron - only one squadron of CzAF with air-to-ground capability...
Posts: 5,267
By: Fedaykin - 27th March 2014 at 16:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well yes I do think its worth it, the UK did actually sell a significant proportion of its Typhoon fleet to service the Saudi Arabian contract. How is Iraq untrustworthy? They appear to pay up and are fairly firm in negotiations.
Does the Czech government want to export the L-159A or not?
Posts: 581
By: rumcajs - 27th March 2014 at 17:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yes, but stored, not in active service. Aero is interesting in selling brand new planes. Czech government has serious client - Draken International... Iraq is absolutely untrustworthy business partner, proof is L-159BQ contract, just promises, promises, promises, and after that just silence and... T-50 contract announcement. Nobody in the Czech republic trust to Iraq government about military contracts right now. Even more, Iraq sent to request and delegation to Aero (private company), but the stored planes are property of Czech army, realy serious partner. Finally, Czech government don´t need contract with Iraq, because Draken contract, Aero has no free L-159A or L-159T1 or T-159B... Czech government hasn´t money to replace 12 L-159A for brand new planes, so CzAF planes selling is absolutely nonsense. Iraq can buy new planes from Aero, highly gainful company right now, but Iraq has minimal chance to got used L-159A of Czech army...
Posts: 5,267
By: Fedaykin - 27th March 2014 at 19:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well I suppose we shall just have to see how this works out Rumcajs, unless you can tell me otherwise the Czech republic doesn't have an arms embargo against Iraq so however frustrating the prior messing about in respect of the earlier still born contract it boils down to money. If Iraq makes a good offer vs Draken international it would be hard to resist.
Posts: 783
By: sheytanelkebir - 28th March 2014 at 16:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
AFAIK Iraq's original "LIFT / attacker" contract was won by T50 against multiple other offers... the whole fiasco with the L159BQ was due to Iraqi internal government infighting and accountability. Iraqi MOD purchasing can be diplomatically described as "chaotic" and more accurately described as headless chickens running in a circle.
the current negotiation is for the stored single seater L159s which draken is also negotiating for.
Draken offered a measly $900K for them per unit.
I am sure the Iraqis can better that (and pay cash up front).
And thus the question arises... what is the status of the Draken contract now?
Would an Iraqi purchase of these second hand units open up the possibility for selling more new build units in future?
Last week the head of CATIC sales flew in to Baghdad to meet and make an offer to the Commander of the Iraqi Air Force. So the Czech "negotiations" may simply be a ruse to get CATIC to lower their prices / offer better delivery rate on JF17... though what the Iraqis are after now more than anything is immediate availability... and thus a major Pakistani Air Force commander was also in Baghdad last week to discuss things.