By: Flying-A
- 21st September 2008 at 22:43Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Genie had no fusing, the warhead was detonated by a timer.
Thanks. This might be a matter of semantics -- one writer's timer is another's fuse.
I once read something about detonation by radio signal, but I wouldn't swear to it.
No guidance system -- the blast area rendered it moot and it would have been just another thing that could have been jammed or malfunctioned.
with a dumb waiter in the transporter room
The people in charge of the sets insisted on this. Afraid of stains from a spill, they didn't wanted a tray of food and a beverage being carried through the corridors. (Apparently that wasn't a concern during the making of "Amok Time", i.e., Spock's temper tantrum when Nurse Chapel brings soup to him. Then there was him smashing the monitor in his quarters, the Vulcan temple/duelling grounds set, a multitude of pointed ears, and a script bought from Theodore Sturgeon -- budget buster!) ;)
] The book "US Military Aircraft Mishaps 1950-2004", by Scramble/Dutch Aviation Society,
] lists: 926 crash-landed at George AFB on 17 June 1965, and consequently destroyed/scrapped.
By: Don Chan
- 27th September 2008 at 17:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
(Yes, I've been thinking too much again.)
] Albatros Modelworks evidently makes an "1/72 ALC72006 Exotic Stars Worldwide F-104s"
] that includes USAF "F-104C 'Smoke II' Serial #70926 in Vietnam War".
I was curious about: the illustrated 70926 apparently wears SEA camouflage.
] The book "US Military Aircraft Mishaps 1950-2004", by Scramble/Dutch Aviation Society,
This concise summary is based on, but isn't copied verbatim from, the book:
17 June 1965:
F-104C. 57-0926.
479th TFW, USAF.
While landing at George AFB, California; flamed out and crashed; 1,500' from runway.
One pilot wounded.
No TFS number...
In 1965, between April and November, a few F-104 squadrons based at George AFB, rotated to South Vietnam and Taiwan. For example:
"The 476th Tactical Fighter Squadron deployed to Vietnam in April 1965 through July 1965, losing one Starfighter; and the 436th Tactical Fighter Squadron deployed to Vietnam in July 1965 through October 1965, losing four."
As 926 crashed in June 1965, it probably wasn't 476th TFS. It could be 436th TFS (see below) or another TFS.
During the Berlin Crisis, 926 was assigned to 434th TFS, then to 435th TFS, then to 436th TFS, until 12 April 1962. All three TFS were assigned to 479th TFW.
926 could've stayed in 436th TFS after/since 1962.
"During 1964/65 the 23d Air Base Group at Da Nang AB South Vietnam supported the 476th and 479th TFS in regular TDY rotations. Their job was to fly MiG combat air patrol (MiGCAP) missions to protect American fighter bombers against attack by North Vietnamese fighters.
"In April 1965, [George AFB] deployed two squadrons to Ching Chuan Kang Air Base Taiwan (434th and 435th TFS) and one [to] Takhli RTAFB Thailand (476th TFS) to provide air defenses of northern area of the Republic of Vietnam."
The 436th TFS didn't seem to have rotated to SEA before July 1965.
In other words,
i) if the actual 926 actually wore SEA camouflage, and it belonged to 436th TFS when it crashed in June 1965, then it could've been pre-painted with the SEA camouflage as preparation for its rotation to SEA; or
ii) if the actual 926 actually wore SEA camouflage, and it didn't belong to 436th TFS when it crashed, then it could've belonged to another TFS that went over to SEA, and rotated back to CONUS.
By: Bager1968
- 27th September 2008 at 21:55Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
djcross and Flying-A:
] Eh, blew up the Enterprise after Khan shot the crap out of it doesn't sound like "got it done" to me.
Agreed. Saavik's right, and Spock's careless to suppress her, when she reminds Kirk that approaching (without yellow alert) the silent USS Reliant is risky, as Kirk's assuming the USS Reliant still has her Star Fleet crew.
(I recently re-watched the USS Enterprise vs USS Reliant battles in (cough) Youtube (cough).)
Ummm... If you watched the battles in question, then you would have known that Kirk did NOT "blow up the Enterprise after Khan shot the crap out of it"... it survived the mission (and the movie), to return to Earth!
The NEXT movie is where he blew the ship... in an encounter with a fully-manned Klingon ship (although a smaller one, it is true), while he had just 5 crew (including himself) to try to operate & fight a (stolen) Enterprise designed for 430 crew... leading to the automation functions going off-line during battle!
By: sferrin
- 27th September 2008 at 21:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ummm... If you watched the battles in question, then you would have known that Kirk did NOT "blow up the Enterprise after Khan shot the crap out of it"... it survived the mission (and the movie), to return to Earth!
The NEXT movie is where he blew the ship... in an encounter with a fully-manned Klingon ship (although a smaller one, it is true), while he had just 5 crew (including himself) to try to operate & fight a (stolen) Enterprise designed for 430 crew... leading to the automation functions going off-line during battle!
Seeing how the enterprise did nothing but sit in spacedock for a few days between getting shot up and blown up (remember ST III starts with the Enterprise on it's way back from the battle with Kahn) the fact that the destruction took place in the third movie really changes nothing. Oh that's right, let's add ripping off a ship to his list of things on the "got it done" list :) So he get's the Enterprise shot to hell, then steals it, then blows it up because he couldn't operate it with five people (did he not know that might be a bit of a problem). So yep, he "got it done" as far as the Enterprise was concerned. The only way he could have "got it done" more is if he blew up the planet the scraps landed on. Oh, wait. . .
By: Bager1968
- 27th September 2008 at 22:08Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Seeing how the enterprise did nothing but sit in spacedock for a few days between getting shot up and blown up (remember ST III starts with the Enterprise on it's way back from the battle with Kahn) the fact that the destruction took place in the third movie really changes nothing.
Was Kirk stupid for not exercising "due caution" in approaching Reliant? Absolutely!
Would Picard have even tried to take Enterprise out to deal with the issues McCoy was facing? No... he would have managed to get McCoy sent to Vulcan (on a courier ship), and had them purge Bones of Spock's Katra, rather than take the kind of risk Kirk did.
You decide which was better.
Yes, it does make a difference where and in which circumstances Kirk self-destructed Enterprise... had he had even a quarter-crew, he would have easily defeated the Klingon scout ship... even with Enterprise as beat up as she was!
By: sferrin
- 27th September 2008 at 23:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Was Kirk stupid for not exercising "due caution" in approaching Reliant? Absolutely!
Would Picard have even tried to take Enterprise out to deal with the issues McCoy was facing? No... he would have managed to get McCoy sent to Vulcan (on a courier ship), and had them purge Bones of Spock's Katra, rather than take the kind of risk Kirk did.
You decide which was better.
Yes, it does make a difference where and in which circumstances Kirk self-destructed Enterprise... had he had even a quarter-crew, he would have easily defeated the Klingon scout ship... even with Enterprise as beat up as she was!
By: Bager1968
- 29th September 2008 at 04:30Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What can I say... I'm a former-USMC Sgt with a large inner geek (although I did work on FLIR/Laser aircraft systems while in the Marines, so maybe a not so hidden geek side).
By: sferrin
- 29th September 2008 at 04:44Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What can I say... I'm a former-USMC Sgt with a large inner geek (although I did work on FLIR/Laser aircraft systems while in the Marines, so maybe a not so hidden geek side).
:D
You know you've got it bad when you notice in the Star Trek Technical manual how much antimatter is in a photon torpedo and reach for Chuck Hansen's nuke book to figure out how many megatons that equates to. :o
By Peter Griffiths Peter Griffiths – 40 mins ago [20 October 2008]
LONDON (Reuters) – Two U.S. fighter planes were scrambled and ordered to shoot down an unidentified flying object (UFO) over the English countryside during the Cold War, according to secret files made public on Monday.
The roads surrounding this Schmidt Park are named after fighters: Fighting Falcon, Eagle, Starfighter, &c.
To the northwest is the Southern California Logistics Airport.
By: J Boyle
- 13th November 2008 at 16:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
IIRC, Mark Lenard (RIP) played all three species: Klingon, Romulan, and Vulcan.
A (very) slight claim to Star Trek fame...
I was at the National Air & Space Museum and two guys walked stood nextto me, it was clear the younger man was giving the older person a VIP personal tour.
I looked at the older guy and it was Mark Lenard.
I discreetly followed the pair for awhile as their tour continued.
I politely told Lenard I enjoyed his work.
He seemed very interested in aerospace history.
And recently, I met the friend of a freind, they're both into restoring and flying antique airplanes...
The visitor from California and he said he was friends with the late Dean Jeffries (sp?), the designer for the original Star Trek series. He confirmed that the NCC-1701 number on the Enterprise, was in fact, a slight variation of the old "NC" number on Jeffries vintage Stinson.
By: Jennings
- 15th November 2008 at 20:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
F-104s
I'd say it's much more likely (given the ST-TOS budgets of the time) that they used stock USAF footage of the 104s in flight. I can't imagine the USAF providing a camera plane and all the resources needed to do that bit of filming for a second rate sci-fi show (at the time). The fact that the 104s aren't camouflaged means the film was probably shot prior to around 1965, well before the series even aired.
By: Flying-A
- 16th November 2008 at 00:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The visitor from California and he said he was friends with the late Dean Jeffries (sp?), the designer for the original Star Trek series.
That would be the late Walter M. ("Matt") Jeffries. His photo collection is now owned by the AAHS and shots from it occasionally appear in the AAHS Journal.
By: Ovsttun
- 12th March 2010 at 21:04Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This is a very late posting concerning F-104C, 57-0926.
70926 was assigned to the 435th TFS, from September 1961-January 1962, at Ramstein AB, Germany. The reason was the Berlin Wall crisis. When the 435th went back to George AFB, 70926 was assigned to the 436th TFS at Hahn AB until April 1962, when they rotated back to George AFB. On 17 June 1965, two 436th pilots were on an Air to Ground Gunnery training mission at George AFB, 70926 was one of the aircraft used. On their return to base the pilot found numerous problems, including fuel quantity and landing gear down lights. A passing F4C assured him his gear was down and he prepared for landing. On final he flamed out and crashed just 900 feet short of the overrun. The pilot suffered some compression fractures. 57-0926 never made it to Vietnam, but we did, three weeks later. I was the crew chief on 70926 from late 1963 until the crash and have pictures of the crashed aircraft.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 21st September 2008 at 21:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
] No WAY one can stand upright in an F-104 cockpit!
In the ST:TOS multiverse, maybe the F-104 cockpit has as much headroom as the Su-34?
] The exterior scene of the base going "on alert" is from the early 60s Rock Hudson
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057090/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Gathering_of_Eagles
"A Gathering of Eagles (1963)"
Don't think I ever watched this. 8b
] ttp://www.clicktracks.com/insidetrack/articles/kirk_analytics.php
] "Analytics According to Captain Kirk"
"D_mmit, Slowpoke; I'm an Engineer, not an accountant."
Anyway.
"Fascinating, Captain."
When ST:TNG first came out, everyone political-correctly wore red. 8P
Posts: 459
By: Flying-A - 21st September 2008 at 22:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks. This might be a matter of semantics -- one writer's timer is another's fuse.
I once read something about detonation by radio signal, but I wouldn't swear to it.
No guidance system -- the blast area rendered it moot and it would have been just another thing that could have been jammed or malfunctioned.
The people in charge of the sets insisted on this. Afraid of stains from a spill, they didn't wanted a tray of food and a beverage being carried through the corridors. (Apparently that wasn't a concern during the making of "Amok Time", i.e., Spock's temper tantrum when Nurse Chapel brings soup to him. Then there was him smashing the monitor in his quarters, the Vulcan temple/duelling grounds set, a multitude of pointed ears, and a script bought from Theodore Sturgeon -- budget buster!) ;)
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 25th September 2008 at 18:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
FWIW, another Netter's CG of USAF F-104C FG-914 or 70914:
http://www.alphasim3.com/forums/index.php?topic=4925.0
FG-781 and FG-786:
http://www.alphasim3.com/forums/index.php?topic=4925.30
] The book "US Military Aircraft Mishaps 1950-2004", by Scramble/Dutch Aviation Society,
] lists: 926 crash-landed at George AFB on 17 June 1965, and consequently destroyed/scrapped.
http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-104/f-104_all.shtml
Albatros Modelworks evidently makes an "1/72 ALC72006 Exotic Stars Worldwide F-104s"
http://www.zotzdecals.com/reviews/alc48006/alc48006.htm
that includes USAF "F-104C 'Smoke II' Serial #70926 in Vietnam War".
http://www.zotzdecals.com/reviews/alc48006/48006e.jpg
Incorrect research by Albatros?
Or, did 926 deploy to SEA for a while, then returned to CONUS, before it "expired"?
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 27th September 2008 at 17:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
(Yes, I've been thinking too much again.)
] Albatros Modelworks evidently makes an "1/72 ALC72006 Exotic Stars Worldwide F-104s"
] that includes USAF "F-104C 'Smoke II' Serial #70926 in Vietnam War".
I was curious about: the illustrated 70926 apparently wears SEA camouflage.
] The book "US Military Aircraft Mishaps 1950-2004", by Scramble/Dutch Aviation Society,
This concise summary is based on, but isn't copied verbatim from, the book:
17 June 1965:
F-104C. 57-0926.
479th TFW, USAF.
While landing at George AFB, California; flamed out and crashed; 1,500' from runway.
One pilot wounded.
No TFS number...
In 1965, between April and November, a few F-104 squadrons based at George AFB, rotated to South Vietnam and Taiwan. For example:
http://www.smso.net/F-104_Starfighter
"The 476th Tactical Fighter Squadron deployed to Vietnam in April 1965 through July 1965, losing one Starfighter; and the 436th Tactical Fighter Squadron deployed to Vietnam in July 1965 through October 1965, losing four."
As 926 crashed in June 1965, it probably wasn't 476th TFS. It could be 436th TFS (see below) or another TFS.
http://www.916-starfighter.de/F-104_USA_Berlin%20crisis.pdf
During the Berlin Crisis, 926 was assigned to 434th TFS, then to 435th TFS, then to 436th TFS, until 12 April 1962. All three TFS were assigned to 479th TFW.
926 could've stayed in 436th TFS after/since 1962.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_9.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Air_Force_Base
"During 1964/65 the 23d Air Base Group at Da Nang AB South Vietnam supported the 476th and 479th TFS in regular TDY rotations. Their job was to fly MiG combat air patrol (MiGCAP) missions to protect American fighter bombers against attack by North Vietnamese fighters.
"In April 1965, [George AFB] deployed two squadrons to Ching Chuan Kang Air Base Taiwan (434th and 435th TFS) and one [to] Takhli RTAFB Thailand (476th TFS) to provide air defenses of northern area of the Republic of Vietnam."
The 436th TFS didn't seem to have rotated to SEA before July 1965.
In other words,
i) if the actual 926 actually wore SEA camouflage, and it belonged to 436th TFS when it crashed in June 1965, then it could've been pre-painted with the SEA camouflage as preparation for its rotation to SEA; or
ii) if the actual 926 actually wore SEA camouflage, and it didn't belong to 436th TFS when it crashed, then it could've belonged to another TFS that went over to SEA, and rotated back to CONUS.
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 27th September 2008 at 21:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ummm... If you watched the battles in question, then you would have known that Kirk did NOT "blow up the Enterprise after Khan shot the crap out of it"... it survived the mission (and the movie), to return to Earth!
The NEXT movie is where he blew the ship... in an encounter with a fully-manned Klingon ship (although a smaller one, it is true), while he had just 5 crew (including himself) to try to operate & fight a (stolen) Enterprise designed for 430 crew... leading to the automation functions going off-line during battle!
Posts: 9,683
By: sferrin - 27th September 2008 at 21:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Seeing how the enterprise did nothing but sit in spacedock for a few days between getting shot up and blown up (remember ST III starts with the Enterprise on it's way back from the battle with Kahn) the fact that the destruction took place in the third movie really changes nothing. Oh that's right, let's add ripping off a ship to his list of things on the "got it done" list :) So he get's the Enterprise shot to hell, then steals it, then blows it up because he couldn't operate it with five people (did he not know that might be a bit of a problem). So yep, he "got it done" as far as the Enterprise was concerned. The only way he could have "got it done" more is if he blew up the planet the scraps landed on. Oh, wait. . .
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 27th September 2008 at 22:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Was Kirk stupid for not exercising "due caution" in approaching Reliant? Absolutely!
Would Picard have even tried to take Enterprise out to deal with the issues McCoy was facing? No... he would have managed to get McCoy sent to Vulcan (on a courier ship), and had them purge Bones of Spock's Katra, rather than take the kind of risk Kirk did.
You decide which was better.
Yes, it does make a difference where and in which circumstances Kirk self-destructed Enterprise... had he had even a quarter-crew, he would have easily defeated the Klingon scout ship... even with Enterprise as beat up as she was!
Posts: 9,683
By: sferrin - 27th September 2008 at 23:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
ROFL!!!! Not at you, at the conversation. :)
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 29th September 2008 at 04:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What can I say... I'm a former-USMC Sgt with a large inner geek (although I did work on FLIR/Laser aircraft systems while in the Marines, so maybe a not so hidden geek side).
:D
Posts: 9,683
By: sferrin - 29th September 2008 at 04:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You know you've got it bad when you notice in the Star Trek Technical manual how much antimatter is in a photon torpedo and reach for Chuck Hansen's nuke book to figure out how many megatons that equates to. :o
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 29th September 2008 at 04:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
BTW, a Jap friend says the digital-remastered version of ST:TOS is re-syndicated in Japan, and this ep was on-air a few weeks ago. 8(
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 20th October 2008 at 16:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081020/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_britain_ufo
"U.S. pilot was ordered to shoot down UFO"
By Peter Griffiths Peter Griffiths – 40 mins ago [20 October 2008]
LONDON (Reuters) – Two U.S. fighter planes were scrambled and ordered to shoot down an unidentified flying object (UFO) over the English countryside during the Cold War, according to secret files made public on Monday.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 13th November 2008 at 14:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
FWIW, in Google Maps, I input "George AFB", and I got a Westwinds Sport Center, in Adelanto, California.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=George+AFB&um=1&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title
The roads surrounding this Schmidt Park are named after fighters: Fighting Falcon, Eagle, Starfighter, &c.
To the northwest is the Southern California Logistics Airport.
Posts: 9,823
By: J Boyle - 13th November 2008 at 16:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A (very) slight claim to Star Trek fame...
I was at the National Air & Space Museum and two guys walked stood nextto me, it was clear the younger man was giving the older person a VIP personal tour.
I looked at the older guy and it was Mark Lenard.
I discreetly followed the pair for awhile as their tour continued.
I politely told Lenard I enjoyed his work.
He seemed very interested in aerospace history.
And recently, I met the friend of a freind, they're both into restoring and flying antique airplanes...
The visitor from California and he said he was friends with the late Dean Jeffries (sp?), the designer for the original Star Trek series. He confirmed that the NCC-1701 number on the Enterprise, was in fact, a slight variation of the old "NC" number on Jeffries vintage Stinson.
Posts: 64
By: Jennings - 15th November 2008 at 20:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
F-104s
I'd say it's much more likely (given the ST-TOS budgets of the time) that they used stock USAF footage of the 104s in flight. I can't imagine the USAF providing a camera plane and all the resources needed to do that bit of filming for a second rate sci-fi show (at the time). The fact that the 104s aren't camouflaged means the film was probably shot prior to around 1965, well before the series even aired.
J
Posts: 459
By: Flying-A - 16th November 2008 at 00:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That would be the late Walter M. ("Matt") Jeffries. His photo collection is now owned by the AAHS and shots from it occasionally appear in the AAHS Journal.
Posts: 1
By: Ovsttun - 12th March 2010 at 21:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This is a very late posting concerning F-104C, 57-0926.
70926 was assigned to the 435th TFS, from September 1961-January 1962, at Ramstein AB, Germany. The reason was the Berlin Wall crisis. When the 435th went back to George AFB, 70926 was assigned to the 436th TFS at Hahn AB until April 1962, when they rotated back to George AFB. On 17 June 1965, two 436th pilots were on an Air to Ground Gunnery training mission at George AFB, 70926 was one of the aircraft used. On their return to base the pilot found numerous problems, including fuel quantity and landing gear down lights. A passing F4C assured him his gear was down and he prepared for landing. On final he flamed out and crashed just 900 feet short of the overrun. The pilot suffered some compression fractures. 57-0926 never made it to Vietnam, but we did, three weeks later. I was the crew chief on 70926 from late 1963 until the crash and have pictures of the crashed aircraft.
Posts: 1,190
By: Al - 12th March 2010 at 21:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cripes - I've watched that episode a hundred times, ad didn't realise there was so much to it!
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 15th March 2010 at 05:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
] This is a very late posting concerning F-104C, 57-0926.
"Fascinating, Captain."
Seriously, thanks much for the info, dude. FWIW, I'm a voluntary contributor to the International F-104 Society site, at
http://i-f-s.nl/index.htm
Posts: 662
By: Taygibay - 16th March 2010 at 14:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Starfighter what?
??????????????????
.:D