Read the forum code of contact
By: - 20th November 2008 at 17:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
FACTS ABOUT fighters
Norway to buy up to 48 combat aircraft to replace the current F-16 fleet.
Thursday manufacturers have competed for the contract: Swedish JAS Gripen and U.S. F-35 Lightning II (JSF) produced by Lockheed Martin.
The government is committed to select the F-35.
The price for the purchase will be 18 billion (nkr).
According to the government's F-35 clearly cheaper, both in procurement and in terms of costs over the expected life of 30 years.
According to the government was the only F-35 that meet all the operational and technical requirements that the government has set.
Norway is a paying partner in the development of the F-35 (JSF).
By: - 20th November 2008 at 17:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Does anybody have any information about what LM has included in the price?
I must say that I am very impressed if Lockheed can sell 48 JSF fighters, including engine, spares and service at a price 25 % cheaper than Saab offers Gripen NG. Frankly, it seems too good to be true...
Regards,
Cliff
By: - 20th November 2008 at 18:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
VG have read internal documents that indicate a price of around 21 billion dollars for 48 aircraft of the type F-35A.
That is, around 373 million per aircraft. In addition, expenses for a global logistics and training system. According to the Department of Defense Pentagon will cost over a 25 year period amount to approximately 756 million per aircraft, or a total of 36 billion.
This amount does not include weapons and consumption of, for example, fuel and oil
By: - 20th November 2008 at 18:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.thelocal.se/15838/20081120/
English summary
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article3818439.ab
och på Svenska
By: - 20th November 2008 at 19:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
wow, thats bad news for Sweden..leaves the Brazilian, Indian, Danish and Swiss tenders..any news from Romania and Croatia about what they're planning to do to replace their fighters?
By: - 20th November 2008 at 19:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here also
http://www.aftenposten.no/
Cheaper? Weeeell, I don't think so. Anyways, a strategic decision for serious anti-ship and offensive capability, versus a more defensive Gripen NG. Might not solve the fighter problem, though.
By: - 20th November 2008 at 21:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
VG have read internal documents that indicate a price of around 21 billion dollars for 48 aircraft of the type F-35A.That is, around 373 million per aircraft. In addition, expenses for a global logistics and training system. According to the Department of Defense Pentagon will cost over a 25 year period amount to approximately 756 million per aircraft, or a total of 36 billion.
Kroner, not dollars.
VG har lest interne dokumenter som tilsier en pris på rundt 21 milliarder kroner for 48 fly av typen F-35A.
Divide by 7.1865 (todays exchange rate), & you get USD 61 million per aircraft.
By: - 20th November 2008 at 22:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry, was using a online translator on the text. It translated "kroner" to "dollar", as it seems.
By: - 20th November 2008 at 22:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry, was using a online translator on the text. It translated "kroner" to "dollar", as it seems.
:D How idiosyncratic of it.
By: - 20th November 2008 at 23:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here also
http://www.aftenposten.no/Cheaper? Weeeell, I don't think so. Anyways, a strategic decision for serious anti-ship and offensive capability, versus a more defensive Gripen NG. Might not solve the fighter problem, though.
There´s a very nice pdf with the evaluation here: http://www.regjeringen.no/upload/FD/Temadokumenter/Fremtidig-kampflykapasitet_anbefaling_311008.pdf
What caught my atention was the cost estimates (page 39 onwards). It´s now official, Lock Mart his offering the F-35A for (roughly) the same acquisition and logistics costs of a Block50+ Viper!
Those numbers are "optimistic" to say the least!!
Now, i just hope that the Norwegian MOD demands a fixed cost contract before signing anything, wich after the "we just need to sign in 2014" comment his far from guaranteed.
Why do i have the feeling that there´s going to be a lot of heart attacks in several MOD´s when the actual bill his delivered around 2013?
By: - 20th November 2008 at 23:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
BIG mistake. Sad.
LM and the US government are well on the way to taking the military aviation industry away from the rest of the Western world for ever.
Cheaper? ! ! ! I don't think the cost can be measured.
Norway are in disgrace.
By: - 21st November 2008 at 00:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
BIG mistake. Sad.LM and the US government are well on the way to taking the military aviation industry away from the rest of the Western world for ever.
Cheaper? ! ! ! I don't think the cost can be measured.
Norway are in disgrace.
How so?
By: - 21st November 2008 at 01:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think you'll find that the price for F-35 included the offset created by Norway's share of manufacturing work... their parts will be on all 1,000+ (more like 2,000+ in reality) F-35s sold to anyone... that's a lot of return to lower what is being paid out.
Additionally, this is part of an actual spreading out of aircraft design & build capability across the Western world, caused by the "multi-national production" aspects of both the F-16 and F-35 programs.
It is due to this that a number of nations have any military-aircraft-related industry at all!
By: - 21st November 2008 at 02:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
BIG mistake. Sad.How so?LM and the US government are well on the way to taking the military aviation industry away from the rest of the Western world for ever.
Cheaper? ! ! ! I don't think the cost can be measured.
Norway are in disgrace.
Don't worry. The average age of the American aerospace worker is 55. In another 10 years, there will not be enough experience left to design or build airplanes.
By: - 21st November 2008 at 04:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If there is any mistake, it should be European countries' (except Russia) giving up for developing 5th Gen stealth fighter. While most airforces in the world today believe that the real stealthy capability as a necessity for their future fighters after 2015, the European fighter manufacturers (except Russian) just can't provide such a product with enough maturity.
So, the history of F-16's overwhelming victory over F-1E and JA37 in the international market is happening once again.
By: - 21st November 2008 at 05:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If there is any mistake, it should be European countries' (except Russia) giving up for developing 5th Gen stealth fighter. ...
So, the history of F-16's overwhelming victory over F-1E and JA37 in the international market is happening once again.
My main problem with your comment is that you are suggesting that these tenders are all about technical merits. They aren't. European countries are mostly loosing out because their governments can't apply the same political pressure as US or Russia can. In many tenders you go for either an american solution (read Poland) or an european solution (read Austria). Clearly, there is a strong bias towards US - to maintain strong relations with them. Adding more stealth functions to the Rafale won't changes this a bit...
By: - 21st November 2008 at 08:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If there is any mistake, it should be European countries' (except Russia) giving up for developing 5th Gen stealth fighter. While most airforces in the world today believe that the real stealthy capability as a necessity for their future fighters after 2015, the European fighter manufacturers (except Russian) just can't provide such a product with enough maturity.So, the history of F-16's overwhelming victory over F-1E and JA37 in the international market is happening once again.
Hmmmm, I think the JSF is the last big manned strike aircraft project, most first world nations are working on stealthy UAV's that will do the first day of war jobs.
6th gen UAV's are here sooner than you think.
By: - 21st November 2008 at 13:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In other news the sun rose in the East this morning.
By: - 21st November 2008 at 14:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hmmmm, I think the JSF is the last big manned strike aircraft project, most first world nations are working on stealthy UAV's that will do the first day of war jobs.6th gen UAV's are here sooner than you think.
How many of the UAV's are capable of full spectrum aerial warfare?:rolleyes:
Posts: 297
By: pegon - 20th November 2008 at 17:45
Link : http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=534149