More A400M posturing

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14 years 9 months

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http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4442571&c=EUR&s=AIR

Yeah that'll happen. Sounds like another blatant attempt to blackmail the partner nations into coughing up more money.

Ah well, if they cancel them the partner nations will be scrambling towards Boeing and LM. Lucky Britain just signed another contract for C17.

If EADS do cancel, won't they have repay a large amount of money to partners anyway?

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24 years 2 months

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Yes!

Member for

14 years 10 months

Posts: 604

Britain should ditch this plane now.

It really is a great looking plane and I can see where it would fit just about.

We potentially had 25 on order at how ever much we were likely to pay for them. Lets order another 8 C-17's taking our fleet to 15 and bring in new C-130's for the rest.

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,626

Britain should ditch this plane now.

It really is a great looking plane and I can see where it would fit just about.

We potentially had 25 on order at how ever much we were likely to pay for them. Lets order another 8 C-17's taking our fleet to 15 and bring in new C-130's for the rest.


I'm not sure Britain should ditch this plane at all. There is a long term niche for such an aircraft (sorted), isn't there? If it were made to "work", it could remain in production for a long time, couldn't it?

Airbus threw away several $billion with their CATIA software mismatch on the A380. They did not say they would have to cancel the program; they did not throw their hands up in horror and tell their customers they would have to pay more; on the contrary, they agreed their customers could pay less due to the inconvenience caused. I don't see that anything is different here except that Airbus think that because their customers are governments, their customers do not merit the same treatment.

Sue the b*stards, I say, if they try to back out of their contract. Nobody held a gun to their head to get them to sign it. They signed it because they doubtless thought they would make lots of lovely money out of it.

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18 years 3 months

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I am as uncomfortable as many others are with carrying on with the A400. However, in 25 years time the A400 will be a mature and relaible design, whereas the Herc will be something of a museum piece. I think the C-130 has gone as far as it can and they need to move on with something new.

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16 years 10 months

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this is where I agree! It really would be a mistake to cancel the A400m now!

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24 years 2 months

Posts: 11,742

this is where I agree! It really would be a mistake to cancel the A400m now!

A transport is something like an air-truck and has to be cost effective at first.
The A400M is over-engineered and too expensive for most transports like the C-17A is.
Both are a waste of money for peace-time operations mostly. When I do see a civil air-freight operator earning money with that I will see it an useful investment.

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2008-4/18/13683.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image13683.html&h=702&w=1024&sz=374&tbnid=uxWzwLVVPwaDhM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBelfast%2Baircraft&hl=de&usg=__u4ggpS5vO_8yhCp2FAUn7LXfeBk=&ei=kZZDS7rDGdH0_AbZ0cCLCQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CCIQ9QEwAw

http://www.aviastar.org/air/russia/an-70.php

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16 years 2 months

Posts: 475

Britain can't ditch the A400 and get C130's in it's place as their aren't any free slots in the near future, we should however push the A400 purchase to the right and buy build the total C17 fleet to 20, then use the A400s to replace the more modern hercs as they run out of hours

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14 years 10 months

Posts: 604

we werent going to be getting our A-400 for a long time anyways.

Member for

18 years 9 months

Posts: 13,432

we werent going to be getting our A-400 for a long time anyways.

Anyways? Are you American?

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19 years 5 months

Posts: 9,821

Isn't using A400s for C-130-size missions a bit overkill?

Not to mention the cost difference.

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20 years 5 months

Posts: 4,674

Ah! A little blackmail! It's all about the fuselage diameter (and a little about weight) of the various new toys that don't fit into a C-130. But the 400M is not the only game in town below the C-17. Right now it might be a good idea to give a couple of million Euros to the Ukrainians for their An-70. Just to make pompous EADS feel a little less secure. Also looking into a C-17 plus Embraer KC-390 mix could be interesting.

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19 years 1 month

Posts: 653

Isn't using A400s for C-130-size missions a bit overkill?

It's a bit difficult to use a C-130 for an A400M sized task.:)

Right now it might be a good idea to give a couple of million Euros to the Ukrainians for their An-70.

I suspect there may be quite a few engineering, certification and practical issues which would make buying any aircraft to come out of the ex Soviet block quite difficult.

Member for

14 years 7 months

Posts: 265

Dumping the A400M would be a huge mistake!

First because of the plane itself which has a huge potentail market for military and perhaps also for civil goods transport

Second because of its unique engine which may have considerable value on its own placed on civil airplanes

Third because of its technology or do we want to continue to increase the dependence on the US for anything slightly technologically advanced? Me personally, I think that ditching the UK knowledge on VTOL is more than sufficient.

And last but not least, because of all the employment it will bring

But i guess that dumping it is just a treath towards the governments to put some pressure.

Oh, something else, I don't understand why EU citizens continue to support the C-17 . Not only are there reports suggesting that this thing is a piece of sh't (not even able to compete with ancient galaxys) but also because of the way in which the US tanker deal got cancelled (for the simple fact that boeing lost against an EU plane)

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 1,533

Dumping the A400M would be a huge mistake!

First because of the plane itself which has a huge potentail market for military and perhaps also for civil goods transport

Second because of its unique engine which may have considerable value on its own placed on civil airplanes

Third because of its technology or do we want to continue to increase the dependence on the US for anything slightly technologically advanced? Me personally, I think that ditching the UK knowledge on VTOL is more than sufficient.

And last but not least, because of all the employment it will bring

But i guess that dumping it is just a treath towards the governments to put some pressure.

Oh, something else, I don't understand why EU citizens continue to support the C-17 . Not only are there reports suggesting that this thing is a piece of sh't (not even able to compete with ancient galaxys) but also because of the way in which the US tanker deal got cancelled (for the simple fact that boeing lost against an EU plane)

The only Europeans airforce that use it are the RAF; who by all accounts are delighted with it, are increasing their fleet to 7 and would almost certainly like more. Other than that the only other Europeans that are currently users are the NATO heavy airlift wing with 3 on loan from the US.

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14 years 10 months

Posts: 604

What employment is brought to the UK in the production of the A400M?

I think that ditching the UK knowledge on VTOL is more than sufficient.

We're building the lift fan for heavens sake.

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24 years 2 months

Posts: 11,742

Isn't using A400s for C-130-size missions a bit overkill?

Not to mention the cost difference.

Of cause like it is like it is the use of C-17A for that. The military are eager to use their "new toys" and "justify" the demand by that.

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15 years 7 months

Posts: 1,533

What employment is brought to the UK in the production of the A400M?

The wings are built in Bristol, Rolls Royce is manufacturing parts of the engine.

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18 years 9 months

Posts: 13,432

Other than that the only other Europeans that are currently users are the NATO heavy airlift wing with 3 on loan from the US.

I thought that two had been bought by the other members, & one provided by the USA.

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 1,533

I thought that two had been bought by the other members, & one provided by the USA.

Dammit man, stop being right:mad:

Member for

18 years 9 months

Posts: 13,432

What employment is brought to the UK in the production of the A400M?

IIRC a bigger proportion of it is built here than our share of the initial order. This is one of the reasons I get irritated by the constant pressure to dump it & buy American.