Sea Gripen - MERGED

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Profile picture for user J-20 Hotdog

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http://www.alide.com.br/joomla/images/notas/SeaGripen-02.jpg

http://www.alide.com.br/joomla/images/notas/SeaGripen-01.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2893/99583289.jpg

perhaps inspired a bit by

http://www.hyperstealth.com/Mig29/Slovak-Mig-29-HyperStealth-Cloudcam-CU.jpg

Original post

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what is this thread about ? discussing the digital camouflage scheme or the merits/demerits of the Sea Gripen ?

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And a better question. If the manufacture of the Gripen was to go to the years of R&D and $$$$$$$ to develop a naval version of the Gripen: What nations navy would buy it??????

Jack E. Hammond

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And a better question. If the manufacture of the Gripen was to go to the years of R&D and $$$$$$$ to develop a naval version of the Gripen: What nations navy would buy it??????

India and maybe Brazil.

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And a better question. If the manufacture of the Gripen was to go to the years of R&D and $$$$$$$ to develop a naval version of the Gripen: What nations navy would buy it??????

Jack E. Hammond

.

The Gripen was designed from the start to handle high sink rate touch downs, similar to carrier landings. It's landing characteristics are excellent, low speed with high precision. The modifications needed to make it navalised wouldn't be too drastic. According to Saab anyway.

Profile picture for user Sign

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And a better question. If the manufacture of the Gripen was to go to the years of R&D and $$$$$$$ to develop a naval version of the Gripen: What nations navy would buy it??????

Jack E. Hammond

.

they will not develop something the market doesnt want...
they have probably customers asking for it..

Profile picture for user Al.

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What nations navy would buy it??????

Jack E. Hammond

.

Well given that US has reneged (again) on the pledge to provide source code for JSF, RN might well be interested as well.

Profile picture for user MadRat

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The UK might be smart to fill the empty spots on their deck with one just to fill in some of the excess capacity left from not buying all the F-35 airframes it set out to buy.

Profile picture for user Al.

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The UK might be smart to fill the empty spots on their deck with one just to fill in some of the excess capacity left from not buying all the F-35 airframes it set out to buy.

:cool:

That would require
a. two supply trains, two training programmes
b. tacit admission that FAA needed all of the original airframes

A typically over-complicated, British bodge solution to the first problem would be to operate JSF from one flat top and Sea Gripen ('Grendel'?) from the other. But that would require b. and that won't happen.

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http://www.stratpost.com/saab-offers-naval-gripen-to-india

Saab offers naval Gripen to India
Monday, December 28, 2009
By Saurabh Joshi

Saab AB, the Swedish defense major, has received a Request For Information (RFI) from the Indian Navy for the supply of carrier-borne fighter aircraft. The company, which received the RFI earlier this month, is pitching a little-known naval variant of its Gripen NG fighter, called the Sea Gripen. Saab is already bidding for the 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender of the Indian Air Force (IAF), for which it has offered an advanced version of the Gripen NG, called the Gripen IN.

Saab has been studying the idea of designing a carrier-borne variant since the mid-’90s but the company only decided to launch the Sea Gripen program in the wake of its existing campaigns for the air forces of India and Brazil and the moves by the two countries to build a serious carrier capability, even though at that time there was no formal request from either country. Saab is planning to pitch the aircraft to countries with smaller-sized carriers and says they expect more nations to show interest in the Sea Gripen, because existing naval fighters are either of an older generation or large-sized, forcing them to buy or build large ships as well.

According to Peter Nilsson, Gripen’s Vice President of Operational Capabilities, the Sea Gripen is intended for both CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take Off But Arrested Recovery) as well as STOBAR (Short Take Off But Arrested Recovery) operations. “There will obviously be differences in the MTOW (Maximum Take-Off Weight). In a CATOBAR concept, the Sea Gripen will have a MTOW of 16,500 kilograms and a maximum landing weight of 11,500 kilograms. In a STOBAR concept it depends on the physics of the carrier. Roughly, the payload of fuel and weapons in STOBAR operations will be one-third less than the payload in CATOBAR operations. There will be no differences in ‘bring-back’ capability,” he says.

Nilsson says Saab hasn’t had to make any dramatic changes in the basic Gripen NG to design the Sea Gripen, because of its existing abilities, saying, “What helps is the Gripen´s ability to operate from road base strips.”

“The basic Swedish Air Force requirements in the original design for enabling short strips’ operations are very like enabling carrier-based operations. Qualities like low landing speed, high pitch & roll authority, high-precision glide slope control, high-precision landing capability, high sink rate clearance, strengthened airframe etc., are built-in from the beginning. This is in addition to the Gripen´s aptitude for active service in the field with easy maintenance, like engine changes in less than an hour in the field and no need for external power etc, enabling a shorter ‘mind jump’ required for the Sea Gripen in comparison to the ability of other land-based fighters to transform into ‘deck-based’ fighters,” he says.

“We do not have to start from scratch. We do not have to redesign the aerodynamics – we do not have to redesign the flight control system or the avionics. We already have a rugged, rough and strong airframe built for ‘carrier-like’ landings,” explains Nilsson.

While all the sensors, avionics and weapons and the GE 414 of the Gripen NG will be offered in the naval variant, the Sea Gripen will be notably different with a new undercarriage and nose gear to cope with the higher sink rate forces and catapult launches, as well as an arrestor hook, which has been redesigned and ‘beefed-up’ from the existing arrestor hook in the Gripen NG.

“There is strengthening of the airframe in a few minor areas due to an even higher sink-rate clearance of over 20 feet per second and the forces and stress in catapult launches, and ‘marinizing’ of the aircraft,” says Nilsson, while stressing that the inherent Gripen NG design minimizes the need for strengthening the airframe and making the aircraft sea-worthy, as the Gripen NG already has salt-water protection and the ability to operate in hot and humid conditions.

The Sea Gripen will be around 400 kilograms heavier than the Gripen NG, with the augmented airframe giving ‘an empty weight between 7500-8000 kg’. “The Sea Gripen will be a very, very interesting alternative for nations with smaller-size carriers. Its well-balanced weight and size in comparison to heavy, twin-engine alternatives allows nations to move from ‘air defence’ carriers to a concept with strategic capabilities, without having to replace their existing carriers,” says Nilsson, also adding, “Due to its balanced size there is no need for structural changes like folding wings etc.”

While the Swedish Armed Forces are not currently looking for a carrier ability, with the Sea Gripen, Saab is looking for partnerships with nations looking for self-reliance in their naval aviation programs. “Saab AB will establish the Sea Gripen as a new-generation carrier-based fighter option in the future, offering its design and engineering skills for partnership with a country with a developed aircraft industry and a carrier-equipped navy,” says Nilsson, also adding that the Sea Gripen program’s human resource skill-sets include engineering and flying experience of carrier-based operations in both, combat as well as peace-time roles.

And while he recognizes that presence of established naval fighters, he is confident of the Gripen’s abilities. “The Sea Gripen will challenge existing carrier-based fighter manufacturers,” he says, emphasizing, “I challenge any existing deck-based fighter to perform a night landing in severe conditions with snow or rain and strong crosswinds on a Swedish standard road-base strip of 17 x 800 meters, rearming and refueling in less than 10 minutes and then taking-off. And not just once for the purpose of showing-off. The system’s performance & physics, maintenance concepts and stress tolerances should be designed for 30 years of daily operations in these conditions,” while at the same time, attesting the Gripen’s requirement for the dimensions of a landing strip to be 9 x 600 meters.

http://www.stratpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/sea_gripen_small.jpg

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we'll see if it gives anything good the day they try to make it for real... for now, all "navalised" terrestrial aircraft did poorly in naval environment...

saying "we won't have to change much, just some minor things" seems to be either just comercial talk, or plain ignorance (possible, since they never made a naval aircraft before AFAIK)

anyway.. we'll see

Profile picture for user swerve

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we'll see if it gives anything good the day they try to make it for real... for now, all "navalised" terrestrial aircraft did poorly in naval environment....

Was the Aquilon so bad? The MN operated it for quite a long time, by the standards of jet fighters at the time.

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French navy kept its F4Us into the 60's as well... it has more to do with financial limitations than the real performance of the aircraft. It was all they had for night interceptions until they retired the Aquilon (french license built Sea Venom)

Their Crusaders were kept flying until they litterally fell out of the skies in pieces... the last USN crusader was retired in 1976, while in french navy it was "stretched" until 1999, a year before first Rafales arrived

Profile picture for user Ja Worsley

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Rise of the Sea Gripen

With India and Brazil looking at building up their naval aviation forces, it has come to light that SAAB has offered the Sea Gripen version based on the Gripen NG for both countries who are also looking at the Gripen for their air force projects (MMRCA and FX-2 respectively).

India will have two carriers with Mig 29K's and two carriers to be built, though originally it was supposed to have Tejas Naval aboard (the light that they are looking at either Sea Gripen or more 29's shows that this project isn't doing well).

India is using Russian and Italian tech to build it's forces up- this would imply that the STOBAR system is being used on the indigenous carriers which are heavily modified Cavour class carriers

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Indianaircraftcarrier.JPG

Brazil have recently announced that they are in the market for 2 new carriers to support their naval efforts (this is part of a far larger naval list that sees 6 new FREMM class frigates and a whole new range of lesser naval vessels in service by 2030).

SAAB have identified a niche in the market saying that there is very little being offered in the way of light to medium range, offencive aircraft on the global market. And unless you are in the Lightning club, your best luck lays with buying secondhand planes and again that will depend on your diplomatic status. SAAB have stated that the basic Gripen has always been designed with quallities that make it idea for Carrier ops:- Short field performance with precise abilities to land in small areas.

The success of the Sea Gripen would also depend on it's affordability, currently the range of naval aviation is akin to outfitting a decent small navy (Rafael, Mig 29K, Super Hornet and lets not forget the F-35B, all costing a mint), SAAB are willing to offer the Sea Gripen on favourable terms similar to it's Current Gripen range which has seen it gain success in economically constrained countires.

My question is, how will SAAB develop such a plane and test it? Will we see a Sea Gripen crossing the decks of the Kuznetsov? (Wouldn't that be a sight :D) Everyone here knows of my support for Project 39, I just wonder if SAAB can really deliver on this one- granted it is very much needed!

http://www.stratpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/sea_gripen_small.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_En-sxfOkXP8/SzAmRdi4laI/AAAAAAAAETQ/rICQ8e4S63g/s400/JAS-39N_Scenium.bmp

http://www.naval.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Gripen-Naval.jpg

http://www.alide.com.br/joomla/images/notas/SeaGripen-02.jpg

http://www.alide.com.br/joomla/images/notas/SeaGripen-01.jpg

Profile picture for user Ja Worsley

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This is a cross post from the naval section- I wanted a broad spectrum of input on this subject- please keep it logical

Profile picture for user quadbike

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If only people looked at existing threads before making their own ! I cannot see India buying it unless the N-LCA programme breaks down.

India's future carrier based fleet - MIG 29K. N LCA, F 35.

Profile picture for user Ja Worsley

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My question still stands though, will we see the Sea Gripen crossing the decks of the Kuznetsov as part of the trials in this program should it go ahead?

Profile picture for user J-20 Hotdog

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My question still stands though, will we see the Sea Gripen crossing the decks of the Kuznetsov as part of the trials in this program should it go ahead?

my african friend.

I think its highly unlikely the Russians will buy a Sea Gripen for the Kuznetsov ;)

as for the Injun Gorkshov mod, they just ordered more MiG-29K. most likely it'll be MiG-29K until they can get their F-35. maybe N-LCA. thats it.

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my african friend.

I think its highly unlikely the Russians will buy a Sea Gripen for the Kuznetsov ;)

as for the Injun Gorkshov mod, they just ordered more MiG-29K. most likely it'll be MiG-29K until they can get their F-35. maybe N-LCA. thats it.

Who is African???

I never asked if the Russians would buy the Sea Gripen, I asked if they would allow the Sea Gripen to be trialled on their carrier!

As for the Indian deal, I think you might want to keep up with the news abit!

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2009/12/saab-offers-sea-gripen.html

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I would expect the most likely platforms for sea trials of Sea Gripen, if built, to be Sao Paulo (catapult launch & arrested launch) and Vikramaditya (STOBAR), i.e. ships operated by potential customers.