The PAK-FA Saga Episode 11.0

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Member for

19 years 8 months

Posts: 1,838

Cute.

Go to another place with your brainwashing

Anyways, what's the deal with this djcross guy? is the patron of stealth and engineering or what?

Member for

18 years 4 months

Posts: 639

You know there are plans to integrate this little thing called DAS on the F-35 and ultimately the F-22 too. Youre such a genius Im sure you've heard of this little insignificant addition. Of course they plan on shaping the DAS "ball" in more of a "angular" configuration, but you have to smoke some serious hashish if you think this install is any less harmful to RCS than what's on the T-50 right now or that Sukhoi is somehow less able to create a triangle!

http://theawesomer.com/photos/2009/05/052309_jsf_t.jpg

They have a flat bottomed prototype called the Su-47, if it made any difference to the final RCS they would have kept the Su-47's bottom. Sukhoi employs 28,000 engineers. UAC employs 120,000+ people in total. You real think huge glaring things like this escaped the attention of all of them?

Member for

14 years 7 months

Posts: 179


They have a flat bottomed prototype called the Su-47, if it made any difference to the final RCS they would have kept the Su-47's bottom. Sukhoi employs 28,000 engineers. UAC employs 120,000+ people in total. You real think huge glaring things like this escaped the attention of all of them?

Kapedani's mind is equivalent to that of millions of engineers! :dev2:

Member for

14 years 4 months

Posts: 242

The 5th generation will be known in the future as the 'lost generation'

In Europe. Because it put its bet on a single aircraft that went into high cost regime instead of becoming a 5th gen F-16 that it was supposed to be.

Asia will be busy working on its own cheaper versions of 5th gen fighters. Planes that will be 4th gen inside and 5th gen outside and fitted with 4th gen AAMs but seeker modified for different band.

And unlike 4th gen workhorses, the 5th gen workhorses will be twin-enginned. The 4th gen single-enginned workhorses like Gripen are already stretched to the limits in terms of payload, range and supercruise. If you want to do anything more you need a very high-thrust single engine like F-35s developing which would add to your costs
OR
you could simply take:

-two of existing EJ200s/F-414s EPE versions,
-existing avionics,
-existing missiles with new seekers
-L-band AESA radar
-stealth features from f-22, yf-23, pak-fa designs

Target RCS < f-15 Silent Eagle and Eurofighter(clean) and not very ambitious RCS

-Run a good RAM coatings R&D programme. Spray the same basic design with new coating in new plane version to bring down RCS further.

and there you have a 5th gen workhorse without having to shell out triple digit millions per unit.

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20 years 4 months

Posts: 6,186

is the patron of stealth and engineering or what?

Best one liner i heard since long :D

Member for

14 years 3 months

Posts: 25

Sukhoi press release: "We took great care to hide the engine."

Thousands of Sukhoi Engineers > Kapedani.

End of discussion.

:rolleyes:

Where is the source? I think in the process of maximizing the weapons load out, they decide to compromise on stealth by not fully covering the turbine blades.

Member for

14 years 7 months

Posts: 179

Where is the source? I think in the process of maximizing the weapons load out, they decide to compromise on stealth by not fully covering the turbine blades.

OFFICIAL - SUKHOI - PRESS - RELEASE

http://www.sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=3142

Member for

15 years 1 month

Posts: 411

Where is the source? I think in the process of maximizing the weapons load out, they decide to compromise on stealth by not fully covering the turbine blades.

as stated Sukhoi.
Or that they did by a combination of curved inlet, installing radar blocking screens, and treating the engine with signature management materials.

I they were not thinking of doing this they would have had a better contender for the project, Su-35.

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 372

Now besides the intake...can someone please explain to me the implications for stealth of the following features:
.................
5) IRST ball on front ( maybe in future generations that will go)
.................

Something to do with the "Blind Swordsman" tactics.
If two stealth fighters meet in combat at BVR range, most likely both of them will stop radar emission to avoid detection from each other. The fighter with the IRST can still "see" though, giving him a distinct advantage over the one lacking it. Besides 2nd generation IRST(based on QWIP technology) would probably extend detection range out to 70 nm. If anything, next update of F-22 may include IRST.

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14 years 7 months

Posts: 179

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8910/pakfaenginesetup.jpg

Member for

14 years 4 months

Posts: 242

What is the probability of two fighter going against each other to be EXACTLY on a straight line facing each other ? The turbine blades are so deep inside intake cavity that a few degrees off the straight line into sideways and they are invisible. But by that distance you already have other detection mechanisms operating such as OLS etc. At long distances IR signals are weak because of lower energy.

http://i47.tinypic.com/jzvgqh.jpg

Member for

20 years 4 months

Posts: 6,186

What is the new engine in there ? They had mentioned that it was a new engine developed in secret for 5 years ?

Member for

18 years 7 months

Posts: 4,461

What is the new engine in there ? They had mentioned that it was a new engine developed in secret for 5 years ?

It's reportedly the article 117 aka AL-41F1. This engine is said to be new in contrast to the article 117S aka AL-41F1S found on the Su-35 which is a development of the AL-31F with features of the AL-41F1 being applied.

Member for

20 years 4 months

Posts: 6,186

It's reportedly the article 117 aka AL-41F1. This engine is said to be new in contrast to the article 117S aka AL-41F1S found on the Su-35 which is a development of the AL-31F with features of the AL-41F1 being applied.

But AL-41F1 with ~ 155kN or 17.5 T of Thrust was the definitive variant which was suppose to finally power the PAK-FA.

And at MAKS 09 the RuAF chief complained that the 5th Gen engine for PAK-FA was facing problem.

Should we assume this is the same engine or something else ?

Member for

20 years 5 months

Posts: 4,674

Can i ask a question to the more informed peoples here ?

I see many talking about the relatively un-stealthy back end and nozzles...I wonder if adopting a design for the nozzles similar to that of the F-35, angled or cerrated ( hope thats the word...) would help significantly ? and is such a solution going to affect much the thrust of the engines?

Here's the F-35 nozzle...

The serrated nozzle idea was first publicly seen in the early 1990's, on one of the AVEN or PYBBN engines, I think.

It's a narrow-band (around the X-band) LO measure only. As far as I'm aware it has only marginal influence on thrust. (Not like on a commercial jetliner's turbofans.)

Member for

20 years 7 months

Posts: 10,217

That they'd say it copied the F-16? :rolleyes:
Well.. it has tricycle landing gear.. two wings... a canopy... is jet powered... has ejection seat... holy crap, even inclined... damned ba$tards.. definitely a copy..

the two engines, two intakes and twin tails can only be attributed to the overwhelming Russian superiority complex... :cool:

Member for

16 years 6 months

Posts: 1,348


Are you an engineer or a scientist working in the aviation industry?

An aviation journo perhaps?

If the gentleman to whom this remark was addressed was one of these categories, would he be allowed to say so? I think not.

One of the problems we all have in this forum is that our real experts probably have to stay incognito.

Another is that some of them seem to have given up posting here, and given the apparently quarrelsome nature of some forum members, who can blame them? Mr LowObservable could probably make useful comments on the intake issues being discussed, but I fear he has concluded that he would be wasting his time here.

Member for

14 years 3 months

Posts: 296

Sukhoi employs 28,000 engineers. UAC employs 120,000+ people in total. You real think huge glaring things like this escaped the attention of all of them?
My friend, Lockheedmartin employs 140,000 highly skilled scientists, engineers and workers, and NorthropGrumman 120,000 of them. Not to mention that thier resources dwarfs the entire russian aerospace industry. Yet, those 'little" details did not stop posters on this forum (and others) to question the F 22 and F 35. Some of the doubts were right (many fixsed by these corporation), others were not.

So, if a poster has some doubts about a prototype, of a new design, in a a totally new field for the Russians (stealth), that just made 40 min first flight, try to answer him with facts; maybe he just doesn't share your excitement, that's all.

Member for

14 years 4 months

Posts: 2,114

Does anyone knows if it flew as planned again today ?(as i saw posted here few days ago ...)
Must be evening time in Russia by now i guess...

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 597

Why the main undercarriage doors are diferent?

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