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By: 28th March 2011 at 23:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-How would the final price of this ship compare with another 45,000 ton aircraft carrier? Say.....Charles de Gaul?
By: 29th March 2011 at 08:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-How would the final price of this ship compare with another 45,000 ton aircraft carrier? Say.....Charles de Gaul?
CdG - 3.7$ billion.
By: 29th March 2011 at 12:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Now if we also had a good indication of what funding the Chinese have poured into Varyag and what the Russian paid to build (and maybe also to repair/refit) Gorshkov and Kuznetsov, repectively, we'ld have an interesting comparison.
By: 29th March 2011 at 12:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-How would the final price of this ship compare with another 45,000 ton aircraft carrier? Say.....Charles de Gaul?
That would be a rather poor comparison to make since CdG was new and nuclear powered.
By: 29th March 2011 at 13:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I linked that interview some time ago on the Indian Navy forum. It probably gives the most detailed description of the actual work being done on the ship yet.
By: 30th March 2011 at 01:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-That would be a rather poor comparison to make since CdG was new and nuclear powered.And WAAY more capable. But what Im really looking for, is just how much this fiasco will cost the Indian Navy once/if it is finaly delivered.
By: 30th March 2011 at 08:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-And WAAY more capable. But what Im really looking for, is just how much this fiasco will cost the Indian Navy once/if it is finaly delivered.
The only thing so far you can conclude is that cost went up. There is nothing else to base the conclusion of 'fiasco' on, not in a practical operational sense. You'ld have to wait and see how she does when actially in service.
Let's not forget CdG has not exactly been without problems ....
- The ship was launched in May 1994 and commissioned in September 2000, following sea trials which began in January 1999. As a result of trials the landing deck has been lengthened by 4.4m to enable the E-2C to land and clear the deck quickly.The 5 million francs for the extension was 0.025% of the total budget for Charles de Gaulle project.
- On 28 February 2000, a nuclear reactor trial triggered the combustion of additional isolation elements, producing a smoke incident.
- During the night of 9 November 2000, in the Western Atlantic while en route toward Norfolk, Virginia, the port propeller broke and the ship had to return to Toulon to replace the faulty unit. The investigations that followed showed similar structural faults in the other propeller and in the spare propellers: bubbles in the one-piece copper-aluminium alloy propellers near the centre. The fault was blamed on the supplier, Atlantic Industries, which had already gone bankrupt. To make matters worse, all documents relating to the design and fabrication of the propellers had been lost in a fire. As a temporary solution, the less advanced spare propellers of Clemenceau and Foch were used, limiting the maximum speed to 24 knots (44 km/h) instead of the contractual 27 knots (50 km/h).
- The carrier was due to enter service in December 2000, but, following the breakage of a propeller blade during long-distance trials, this was delayed to April 2001. Charles de Gaulle went back to sea with two older propellers and sailed 25.2 knots (47 km/h) on her trials.
- Between July and October, Charles de Gaulle had to be refitted once more due to abnormal noises, as loud as 100 dB, near the starboard propeller, which had rendered the aft part of the ship uninhabitable.
- In September 2007, Charles de Gaulle began a refit which included overhaul and refuelling of the nuclear propulsion system and installing a new SYTEX command and control system with Syracuse III satellite communications system. The refit was completed and the carrier returned to the French Navy in December 2008.
By: 30th March 2011 at 09:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-^ There have also been problems more recently with CdG requiring return to port IIRC.
By: 30th March 2011 at 12:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-And WAAY more capable. But what Im really looking for, is just how much this fiasco will cost the Indian Navy once/if it is finaly delivered.
In hindsight yes, but at the time of the offer it appeared a cheap way to get a carrier capable of CATOBAR operations whilst awaiting their own ADS to be built. Given the original expectations on costs and delivery schedule then it probably appeared to be value for money.
Comparing costs to CdG is a pointless exercise, the CdG design wasn't for sale due to its propulsion and mis 2000's prices for a new build CdG would be astronomic (otherwise the french would have ordered a 2nd ship rather than get bogged down in its own PA2 requirement !). Plus it would have to be a new build and Indian was already working on its own carrier project so couldn't justify building another new carrier design overseas !
By: 31st March 2011 at 01:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Comparing costs to CdG is a pointless exercise, the CdG design wasn't for sale due to its propulsion and mis 2000's prices for a new build CdG would be astronomic (otherwise the french would have ordered a 2nd ship rather than get bogged down in its own PA2 requirement !).
A follow-on CdG was priced at just under 2 billion euros in 2003 (1.83-1.99 billion depending on equipment fit). Not astronomic by any standard, though unaffordable for the French budget at the time.
By: 31st March 2011 at 10:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-that sounds very cheap. Are you sure that was for a complete ship?
About the same time, the actual cost per ton of Cavour was about the same, but she's a simpler ship with cheaper propulsion.
By: 2nd April 2011 at 11:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-any up-to-date pics?
By: 3rd April 2011 at 10:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-So, the big news is that they can now turn on the lights aboard, and that they can tie her up to an out-of-the-way pier so she is not in the way while everybody takes a 2 (or 12) month vacation.
By: 3rd April 2011 at 18:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-So, the big news is that they can now turn on the lights aboard, and that they can tie her up to an out-of-the-way pier so she is not in the way while everybody takes a 2 (or 12) month vacation.
What a usefull and informative post :rolleyes:
By: 9th April 2011 at 16:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-A follow-on CdG was priced at just under 2 billion euros in 2003 (1.83-1.99 billion depending on equipment fit). Not astronomic by any standard, though unaffordable for the French budget at the time.
What was the price of the 1st CDG when it was completed?
It is little difficult to believe that French will be able to built a 2nd unit at a lesser cost than the 1st unit. If that was clearly the case we would have been seeing the 2nd of the CDG in operation now. But that have not happened and they are now desperately on for a collaboration with the Brits with PA2. Am i wrong?
By: 9th April 2011 at 16:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-So, the big news is that they can now turn on the lights aboard, and that they can tie her up to an out-of-the-way pier so she is not in the way while everybody takes a 2 (or 12) month vacation.
If anyone in the forum would have thought what any totally clue-less person would have thought about the entire process of electrification of a ship/carrier and the mooring trials. You cleared their doubts! ;)
By: 9th April 2011 at 21:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-A second CdG wouldnt have the unfortunate power plant of the 1st would it? As I understand it, pretty much all her problems stem from it.
By: 9th April 2011 at 23:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-What was the price of the 1st CDG when it was completed?It is little difficult to believe that French will be able to built a 2nd unit at a lesser cost than the 1st unit. If that was clearly the case we would have been seeing the 2nd of the CDG in operation now. But that have not happened and they are now desperately on for a collaboration with the Brits with PA2. Am i wrong?
Yes, you're wrong.
The French withdrew from collaboration with the UK on PA2 a couple of years ago.
A second CdG could have been built more cheaply than the first, because of design work that would not need to be repeated, & because building of CdG was slowed down by political decisions, & that slowdown increased costs. Building a second straight off, no delays, would have been a lot cheaper.
The decision not to build a second was a mixture of cost & technical issues, IIRC. It wasn't because a second would not have been cheaper than the first.
By: 10th April 2011 at 00:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-A second CdG wouldnt have the unfortunate power plant of the 1st would it? As I understand it, pretty much all her problems stem from it.
If they stayed with the nuclear option yes.....its the only reactor they would have had.
Had they decided to go conventional, with the original design, they have to find some bunkerage for ship propulsion plus, probably, step up their UNREP capacity. This would, of course, be in addition to the shore-side nuclear handling facilities they had to build up to support CDG-01.
Heads you lose, tails you don't win on that one.
By: 10th April 2011 at 12:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Found this article only today during a search....some specific data is there..
http://www.bz.ru/en/news*3,27.html
The press release 15 May 2006 года,
Baltiysky Zavod produced boilers for the Indian aircraft carrierBaltiysky Zavod JSC fulfilled one of the largest machinebuilding contracts – a series of main marine boilers. These items were produced for the Indian aircraft carrier «Vikramaditya» (former «Admiral Gorshkov»).
«A contract for the production of nine marine boilers Baltiysky Zavod JSC has concluded with FSUE «North Machinebuilding Plant» in June 2004. The contract price amounts to approximate USD 20 mio.», - said Oleg Kostikov, Director of Economy of Baltiysky Zavod. «During 2006 our company will gain about USD 22 mio in connection with the machinebuilding contracts. Prediction for 2007 – no less than USD 25 mio», - added Oleg Kostikov.
The first boiler for the Indian aircraft carrier was manufactured in May 2005. It is assembled on the test bench and is used as a simulator. The crew has an opportunity to get practical training as regards repairs and maintenance. Later the boiler will be sent to India and subsequently installed in the crew training facility. The rest eight boilers will be installed on board the warship, which is modernized by FSUE «North Machinebuilding Plant», Severodvinsk.
Baltiysky Zavod has modernized boilers type КVG-3 – КVG-ЗD. Now they operate on diesel fuel instead of black oil. Owing to this modernization power plant performance increased. Boiler piping is produced from special corrosion-resistant steel, providing durability of equipment.
On the customer’s request Baltiysky Zavod used environmentally friendly asbestosfree insulation in the manufacture of marine boilers. A new insulation (mineral fiber) is ecologically harmless material.
Reference
Today Baltiysky Zavod JSC is under a Joint Industrial Corporation umbrella. It is a leader in the North-West Region of Russia in production of marine and power equipment.
Machinebuilding shops of Baltiysky Zavod manufacture a wide range of machinery: propellers and propeller shafts, marine and industrial pipeline fittings, exhaust-gas boilers, steam separators, marine boilers, boiler units, stern tubes, steering gears, heat exchangers, etc.
Main customers of Baltiysky Zavod JSC are the leading domestic and foreign companies.
To the list of news
1) contract for the production of nine marine boilers Baltiysky Zavod JSC was concluded with FSUE «North Machinebuilding Plant» in June 2004
2) contract price amounts to approximate USD 20 million
3) The new boiler designation is КVG-ЗD, using diesel as fuel
4) The first boiler for the Indian aircraft carrier was manufactured in May 2005. It is assembled on the test bench and is used as a simulator.
5) The crew has an opportunity to get practical training as regards repairs and maintenance. Later the boiler will be sent to India and subsequently installed in the crew training facility.
6) The rest eight boilers will be installed on board the warship
Posts: 1,482
By: JangBoGo - 28th March 2011 at 16:37
I chanced upon this article during a search and I think this article is probably the very latest on the INS Vikramaditya and I thought a new thread would justify it as the carrier is finally going to start trails and already undergoing mooring trails. Moreover I did not see this article posted anywhere.
added an article
http://www.rusnavy.com/nowadays/concept/views/vikramadityaimplementation/
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/India_Russia_settle_aircraft_carrier_deal_999.html