Russian Navy Thread 2.

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http://militaryrussia.ru/i/284/722/SriEw.jpg

Photo of Novorosiisk hull sometime this year. The submarine is going to be launched before the end of the year.
The 4th boat will be laid down this year, and the yard is of course busy with the 6 submarines for Vietnam.

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13 years 1 month

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Some pics of the first project 22350 fregate from last month:

http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=327726&download=2
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=327730&download=2
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=327733&download=2
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=327734&download=2

nearly 9 years and counting....yawn....
if they had put that money and time on Pr.1135.6, there would have been atleast 6 units in fleet.

Silly Indians who drool about private shipyard getting orders can learn some lessons on how not to do it in the future from this poorly managed project with a lone shipyard having the monopoly to built it. Severnaya is probably the only yard in the western side of Russia engaged in building primary surface combatant who is still building ships without the new modular approach. And it is very much showing on the hulls that have been completed.

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The problem with Groshkov frigate is every thing is new about the Frigate be it weapons , electronics which has been the downfall , they should have managed the risk but creating a balance with proven system and selectively adding new system with block model approach.

The weapons and electronics/radar itself got delayed by many years leading to delay of the entire project. Blame it on Russian Naval top brass for trying to be ahead of time.

They should just build more Pr 1135.6 frigate for now , I dont see Groshkov frigate maturing before 2015

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13 years 1 month

Posts: 1,482

The problem with Groshkov frigate is every thing is new about the Frigate be it weapons , electronics which has been the downfall , they should have managed the risk but creating a balance with proven system and selectively adding new system with block model approach.

The weapons and electronics/radar itself got delayed by many years leading to delay of the entire project. Blame it on Russian Naval top brass for trying to be ahead of time.

They should just build more Pr 1135.6 frigate for now , I dont see Groshkov frigate maturing before 2015


There can be problems with a new project as you mentioned. But I'm sure Yantar or even Baltisky yard would have done it better. This project is going to get more messier if this monopoly continues and a second line is not opened early enough.

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As i've been saying lack of funding was more of a problem then anything else.

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Question- the Paket is a direct anti-torpedo system that intercepts torpedoes with its own rounds.

No other navy yet has dedicated anti-torpedo systems like Paket in service correct? I recall Rafale was working on an advanced decoy, but nothing that actually seeks out incoming torps. Germany had some system in development that would use supercavitating tops, but AFAIk that all went nowhere.

Yes, AFAIK Paket is pretty much one of a kind right now, to date most Western so-called torpedo defence systems (SLAT, SSTD) are soft-kill only, performing a function not unlike UDAV-1 without the hard-kill barrage rounds. I believe some (including Germany, Italy and the US respectively) are/were looking at anti-torpedo-torpedo based hard-kill systems along the lines of Paket (though using sub-calibre rounds), but I don't think any of them has entered service yet. Then again, UDAV-1 was probably the first effective hard-kill system outright (and actually more simple and straight forward than Paket to my mind), so that Russia should be well-positioned in this field is not surprising.

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I believe some (including Germany, Italy and the US respectively) are/were looking at anti-torpedo-torpedo based hard-kill systems along the lines of Paket (though using sub-calibre rounds), but I don't think any of them has entered service yet.

Eurotorp claim 'developed' anti-HWT capability for the HARDKILL variant of their MU90 LWT. The concept being that, perhaps, 1 tube in a triple LWT launcher would be a HARDKILL such that anti-torpedo capability would be an easy fit option. I dont know of any actual sales/deployments, but, had I bought that variant of the torpedo I might be keen to see that Eurotorp do their best to keep that information out of the public domain for obvious reasons.

Ship impact, with UDAV-1, looks a little on the high side when compared with SLAT etc, but, it does look a very impressive system and one I'd, personally, very much like to see an analogy of on RN carriers, amphibs and Auxilliaries.

Thanks for that info! This would be pretty much a direct analogue to Paket, using a full-size ASW torpedo for the task.

UDAV-1 is a big unit for sure, but as you say it belongs on every high-value asset and that they are not fitting it to their Mistrals is one of my major gripes with that project.

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I'm also a fan of Udav (and the RBU launchers in general), but since most of the new ships are moving on to Paket, presumably the same choice will be made for Mistral.

I am mildly shocked that it is 2013 and such systems are not more widespread, especially given how much of a threat submarines have been portrayed as for the past 50 years.
Seems like the Soviet Navy appreciated the defensive need from torpedoes earlier than most, similar to the early widespread use of CIWS.

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There was an Isreali equivelent 90R rocket of the RBU-6000.

I'm a bit surprised why there isn't a sucessor for both of this systems. Why depend soley on Paket.

Proper rate of construction!

And THAT, more than anything else, is what this project is all about. I would have preferred it if they had gone for the larger BPC250 version and added a decent defensive weapons fit so that they got more military utility into the bargain, but there are worse mistakes in current Russian procurement.

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but there are worse mistakes in current Russian procurement.

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