By: Wanshan
- 25th February 2013 at 23:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I wonder what kind of ship sharing partnership is Ukraine looking for? They should make her as a rental cruiser? Then they could make ads like Rent a cruiser for two months and you get an extra month for free. That would be something. But seriously how would "joint use of a cruiser" work between multiple countries? I wonder what those other countries are?
There are some known instances of ships and boats being leased ...
e.g. ex-Soviet Charlie class nuclear powered guided missile submarine on a 3-year lease to the Indian Navy, which commissioned the vessel as the INS Chakra. That submarine was manned by an Indian crew. Upon expiration of the lease term in 1991, the submarine was returned to Russia and joined the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy.
e.g. Brooke and Garcia class ships by US to Pakistan, on a five-year lease in 1988. A depot for repairs, USS Hector followed the lease of these ships in April 1989. The lease of the first Brooke class frigate expired in March 1993, the remaining in early 1994. Ships were returned to US custody.
The problem is, these are all finished, active ships, not an unfinished ship that has been laid up for 15 years.
By comparison, India paid US$2 billion for the completion of two Akula-II class submarines which were 40–60% completed. Three hundred Indian Navy personnel were trained in Russia for the operation of these submarines. India has finalised a deal with Russia, in which at the end of the lease of these submarines, it has an option to buy them. The first submarine is named INS Chakra and was handed over to India on 23 January 2012
So, even that problem could be overcome....
There are no Black Sea navies besides Russia that could support it. The only other navies I could think of are Chinese and Indian, both of which very unlikely candidates.
Good news, the Karp has been moved to a new place @ Zvezdochka, and will be prepped for repairs soon!
The Karp is the first of the 945 boats, entered service in 1984, but left the fleet after only 14 years of service in 1998. It has been out of service ever since, but is going to return!
Due to titanium hull logitivity and modernization, this will alleviate need for 885s; the Karp is planned to be handed over in 2016, so it could easily serve till well past 2025.
Zvezdochka has a contract for both 945 boats, the Karp and the Kostroma.
Good news, the Karp has been moved to a new place @ Zvezdochka, and will be prepped for repairs soon!
The Karp is the first of the 945 boats, entered service in 1984, but left the fleet after only 14 years of service in 1998. It has been out of service ever since, but is going to return!
Due to titanium hull logitivity and modernization, this will alleviate need for 885s; the Karp is planned to be handed over in 2016, so it could easily serve till well past 2025.
Zvezdochka has a contract for both 945 boats, the Karp and the Kostroma.
By: Stonewall
- 19th March 2013 at 17:22Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Russia Goes Ahead with 5G Submarine Project
(Source: RIA Novosti; published March 18, 2013)
MOSCOW --- Work is in progress on the newest fifth-generation nuclear-powered and diesel submarines at Russia's Rubin Central Design Bureau, Rubin head Igor Vilnit said on Monday.
The Russian Navy currently relies on third-generation submarines with fourth-generation subs of the Yury Dolgoruky (Project 955 Borey) and St. Petersburg (Project 677 Lada) class just beginning to be adopted for service.
In addition to Rubin, Defense Ministry research centers and the Navy Institute, as well as Rubin’s partners and contractors, are currently working to develop a basic design of the fifth-generation submarine.
The new submarine will have a service life of about 50 years, he said.
The fifth generation will be distinguished by its lowered noise, automated control systems, reactor safety, and long-range weapons.
The Defense Ministry previously said Russia is planning to develop its fifth-generation submarine by 2020 under a 2011-2020 arms procurement program, to be armed with both ballistic and cruise missiles.
Russia also plans to build eight fourth-generation strategic nuclear subs by 2020 and arm them with Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missiles.
BRAHMOS missile is capable of being launched from submarine from a depth of 40-50 metres. The missile is installed in a modular launcher vertically in the pressure hull of the submarine. The missile has identical configuration similar to the ship based system.
Submarine launch
The canisterised missile is launched vertically, the nose cap prevents water from entering the 'air-intake' during the underwater flight. Once the missile emerges from the water, the sensors provide the “out of water command” and the nose cap is fired for turning the missile in the desired direction to hit the target.
BRAHMOS installation in submarine will increase manyfold the 'offensive power' of the vessel without compromising on its 'defensive power' as the torpedo tubes can be fully utilized for defence. All studies and simulation trials related to underwater launch have been completed.
The launch trials are expected to begin in 2009, firstly from a submerged platform and depending on the user requirement, a suitable platform will be identified for deployment.
India successfully launches BRAHMOS missile from underwater
(March 20, 2013)
VISAKHAPATNAM: The submarine-launched version of BRAHMOS supersonic cruise missile was successfully test-fired at 1410 hrs on Wednesday (20th March 2013) from a submerged platform in Bay of Bengal off the coast of Visakhapatnam.
Creating history, the missile took off vertically from the submerged platform for its full range of 290 kms. Following a pre-defined trajectory, the missile emerged from underwater, took a turn towards the designated target meeting all mission objectives. All the telemetry and tracking stations, including Indian naval ships positioned throughout the flight path, confirmed the pin-point accuracy of the mission.
This is the first time that any supersonic cruise missile is launched vertically from a submerged platform. BRAHMOS vertically installed in a modular launcher in the pressure hull of the submarine will increase the 'offensive power' of the vessel without compromising on its 'defensive power' as the torpedo tubes can be fully utilised for defence. This new variant of the supersonic cruise missile will add more firepower to the Navy's underwater weapon delivery capabilities.
When contacted by Journalists, Dr. A Sivathanu Pillai, CEO & MD, BrahMos Aerospace said that "BRAHMOS missile is fully ready for fitment in P75 (I) of Indian Navy in vertical launch configuration which will make the platform one of the most powerful weapon platform in the World."
Defence Minister Shri AK Antony congratulated the scientists of DRDO, Russian specialists and members from Indian Navy associated with the project for successful test launch of BRAHMOS missile from underwater platform.
The naval variant of BRAHMOS missile has already proved its mettle in both vertical and inclined launch configurations from moving warships. The missile has been successfully inducted in number of frontline Indian Navy warships and will be deployed in other future surface ships. They are capable of both maritime strike and land attack.
P-75(I) is being mentioned as the future carrier of the system in India and it might mean the the 8-cell Amur-1650 is going to appear in the next half of this decade or maybe earlier.
The launch platform of the test is also interesting.
Wildest guess would be the Kilo/Pr.887 that was in the dock for repair for the last one decade actually being the test bed or any other submarine.
And if it isn't, the launch platform used during this test being the actual module that is planned for the Amur-1650. So this test could have been for validating the missile and the VL launch module.
By: Witcha
- 24th March 2013 at 17:38Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Russia Goes Ahead with 5G Submarine Project
(Source: RIA Novosti; published March 18, 2013)
MOSCOW --- Work is in progress on the newest fifth-generation nuclear-powered and diesel submarines at Russia's Rubin Central Design Bureau, Rubin head Igor Vilnit said on Monday.
The Russian Navy currently relies on third-generation submarines with fourth-generation subs of the Yury Dolgoruky (Project 955 Borey) and St. Petersburg (Project 677 Lada) class just beginning to be adopted for service.
In addition to Rubin, Defense Ministry research centers and the Navy Institute, as well as Rubin’s partners and contractors, are currently working to develop a basic design of the fifth-generation submarine.
The new submarine will have a service life of about 50 years, he said.
The fifth generation will be distinguished by its lowered noise, automated control systems, reactor safety, and long-range weapons.
The Defense Ministry previously said Russia is planning to develop its fifth-generation submarine by 2020 under a 2011-2020 arms procurement program, to be armed with both ballistic and cruise missiles.
Russia also plans to build eight fourth-generation strategic nuclear subs by 2020 and arm them with Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missiles.
2020? By then Russia will be lucky to have any significant numbers of 4th gen submarines in service. The first Yasen only recently entered service and the Lada is still in development.
2040 may be a more realistic date to see these future subs finish development. That is, unless the Russian Navy doesn't plan on replacing all their current subs with 4th gen ones, instead inducting only a small number and jumping straight to the 5th generation.
By: snake65
- 25th March 2013 at 13:39Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
2020? By then Russia will be lucky to have any significant numbers of 4th gen submarines in service. The first Yasen only recently entered service and the Lada is still in development.
2040 may be a more realistic date to see these future subs finish development. That is, unless the Russian Navy doesn't plan on replacing all their current subs with 4th gen ones, instead inducting only a small number and jumping straight to the 5th generation.
Severodvinsk is not in service yet, Alexander Nevsky being delayed into 2014, etc. Lada is accepted into limited service, certain trials still pending.
New
Posts: 3,609
By: Wanshan
- 28th March 2013 at 19:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just one 971 Washan.
No sign of India trying to get another attack boat.
By: Witcha
- 30th March 2013 at 06:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
^If they're referring to the one at the Amur shipyard, that's an Akula-I, not another Akula-II. The Indian government should ask for one of the Akula-IIs at Sevmash.
By: JangBoGo
- 31st March 2013 at 17:03Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
2020? By then Russia will be lucky to have any significant numbers of 4th gen submarines in service. The first Yasen only recently entered service and the Lada is still in development.
Russia is no India. For all projects that belongs to the top priority in Russian national defence, they dont wait for others and and are fairly on time. Two examples are - PAK-FA & Pr.955 Borei.
So dont get surprised if you see 8 x Pr.955 in service by 2020 as planned. In addition to these, there will be 6 x Pr.636.3, atleast 4 x Pr.677 and Pr.885. All of these belong to the so called 4th gen.
2040 may be a more realistic date to see these future subs finish development. That is, unless the Russian Navy doesn't plan on replacing all their current subs with 4th gen ones, instead inducting only a small number and jumping straight to the 5th generation.
Don't expect the Russian 5th gen to be as facy stuff as what DCN and others showcase at various expos. Russian designs are mainly on conventional lines. So the current 4th Gen Pr.885 & Pr.955 might be the base for the 5th Gen sub which could turn out to be the Pr.885M and Pr.955M. But that is just a guess.
By: TR1
- 31st March 2013 at 20:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
^If they're referring to the one at the Amur shipyard, that's an Akula-I, not another Akula-II. The Indian government should ask for one of the Akula-IIs at Sevmash.
None left. The only partially completed 971 left is @ Amur.
It can be completed to same standard as Nerpa in any case.
Regarding new project numbers, I don't see more than 10 955 + 855 in service by/through 2020. Probably closer to 8 in total.
Posts: 3,609
By: Wanshan - 25th February 2013 at 23:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There are some known instances of ships and boats being leased ...
e.g. ex-Soviet Charlie class nuclear powered guided missile submarine on a 3-year lease to the Indian Navy, which commissioned the vessel as the INS Chakra. That submarine was manned by an Indian crew. Upon expiration of the lease term in 1991, the submarine was returned to Russia and joined the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy.
e.g. Brooke and Garcia class ships by US to Pakistan, on a five-year lease in 1988. A depot for repairs, USS Hector followed the lease of these ships in April 1989. The lease of the first Brooke class frigate expired in March 1993, the remaining in early 1994. Ships were returned to US custody.
The problem is, these are all finished, active ships, not an unfinished ship that has been laid up for 15 years.
By comparison, India paid US$2 billion for the completion of two Akula-II class submarines which were 40–60% completed. Three hundred Indian Navy personnel were trained in Russia for the operation of these submarines. India has finalised a deal with Russia, in which at the end of the lease of these submarines, it has an option to buy them. The first submarine is named INS Chakra and was handed over to India on 23 January 2012
So, even that problem could be overcome....
There are no Black Sea navies besides Russia that could support it. The only other navies I could think of are Chinese and Indian, both of which very unlikely candidates.
Posts: 9,579
By: TR1 - 25th February 2013 at 23:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just one 971 Washan.
No sign of India trying to get another attack boat.
Posts: 241
By: YU1 - 26th February 2013 at 09:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I made a list of ceremonies that might happen this year.
2013
Laid down
Sevastopol (Mistral)
Admiral Yumashev (Project 22350)
Admiral Butakov (Project 11356)
Admiral Istomin (Project 11356)
Strogy (Project 20380)
Provorny (Project 20385)
Alexandr Suvorov (Project 955)
Mikhail Kutuzov (Project 955)
Ufa (Project 885)
Launched
Vladivostok (Mistral)
Admiral Kasatonov (Project 22350)
Admiral Grigorovich (Project 11356)
Admiral Essen (Project 11356)
Sovershenny (Project 20380)
Kazan (Project 885)
Kronshtadt (Project 677)
Belgorod (Project 09852)
Yuriy Ivanov (Project 18280)
Commissioned
Admiral Gorshkov (Project 22350)
Boiky (Project 20380)
Stoiky (Project 20380)
Alexandr Nevskiy (Project 955)
Severodvinsk (Project 885)
Novorossiysk (Project 636)
2014
Commissioned
Vladivostok (Mistral)
Ivan Gren (Project 11711)
Admiral Kasatonov (Project 22350)
Admiral Grigorovich (Project 11356)
Admiral Essen (Project 11356)
Sovershenny (Project 20380)
Vladimir Monomakh (Project 955)
Rostov-on-Don (Project 636)
Yuriy Ivanov (Project 18280)
Igor Belousov (Project 21300)
Yantar (Project 22010)
Elbrus (Project 23120)
Akademik Kovalev (Project 20181)
Posts: 9,579
By: TR1 - 3rd March 2013 at 21:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/149280.html
Good news, the Karp has been moved to a new place @ Zvezdochka, and will be prepped for repairs soon!
The Karp is the first of the 945 boats, entered service in 1984, but left the fleet after only 14 years of service in 1998. It has been out of service ever since, but is going to return!
Due to titanium hull logitivity and modernization, this will alleviate need for 885s; the Karp is planned to be handed over in 2016, so it could easily serve till well past 2025.
Zvezdochka has a contract for both 945 boats, the Karp and the Kostroma.
Posts: 2,257
By: Vympel - 4th March 2013 at 11:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What about the two 945As? Still in service?
Posts: 9,579
By: TR1 - 19th March 2013 at 09:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
@ Vympel- yeah , more or less. Certainly much more active than fossilized Karp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HFIiBqdVmrU
Redut coastal defense firing.
Posts: 452
By: Stonewall - 19th March 2013 at 17:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Russia Goes Ahead with 5G Submarine Project
(Source: RIA Novosti; published March 18, 2013)
MOSCOW --- Work is in progress on the newest fifth-generation nuclear-powered and diesel submarines at Russia's Rubin Central Design Bureau, Rubin head Igor Vilnit said on Monday.
The Russian Navy currently relies on third-generation submarines with fourth-generation subs of the Yury Dolgoruky (Project 955 Borey) and St. Petersburg (Project 677 Lada) class just beginning to be adopted for service.
In addition to Rubin, Defense Ministry research centers and the Navy Institute, as well as Rubin’s partners and contractors, are currently working to develop a basic design of the fifth-generation submarine.
The new submarine will have a service life of about 50 years, he said.
The fifth generation will be distinguished by its lowered noise, automated control systems, reactor safety, and long-range weapons.
The Defense Ministry previously said Russia is planning to develop its fifth-generation submarine by 2020 under a 2011-2020 arms procurement program, to be armed with both ballistic and cruise missiles.
Russia also plans to build eight fourth-generation strategic nuclear subs by 2020 and arm them with Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missiles.
-ends-
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/143565/russia-goes-ahead-with-next_gen-submarine.html
Posts: 1,482
By: JangBoGo - 24th March 2013 at 15:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good to see the armament for Pr.885 blast off.... ;)
http://www.brahmos.com/content.php?id=20
http://www.brahmos.com/newscenter.php?newsid=166
pics
http://livefist.blogspot.in/2013/03/first-photos-brahmos-underwater-variant.html
P-75(I) is being mentioned as the future carrier of the system in India and it might mean the the 8-cell Amur-1650 is going to appear in the next half of this decade or maybe earlier.
The launch platform of the test is also interesting.
Wildest guess would be the Kilo/Pr.887 that was in the dock for repair for the last one decade actually being the test bed or any other submarine.
And if it isn't, the launch platform used during this test being the actual module that is planned for the Amur-1650. So this test could have been for validating the missile and the VL launch module.
Posts: 1,240
By: Witcha - 24th March 2013 at 17:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
2020? By then Russia will be lucky to have any significant numbers of 4th gen submarines in service. The first Yasen only recently entered service and the Lada is still in development.
2040 may be a more realistic date to see these future subs finish development. That is, unless the Russian Navy doesn't plan on replacing all their current subs with 4th gen ones, instead inducting only a small number and jumping straight to the 5th generation.
Posts: 767
By: snake65 - 25th March 2013 at 13:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Severodvinsk is not in service yet, Alexander Nevsky being delayed into 2014, etc. Lada is accepted into limited service, certain trials still pending.
Posts: 3,609
By: Wanshan - 28th March 2013 at 19:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Media: India is negotiating to lease a second Russian submarine type "Pike-B"
http://translate.google.com/translate?act=url&depth=2&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://flotprom.ru/news/%3FELEMENT_ID%3D141541
Posts: 1,240
By: Witcha - 30th March 2013 at 06:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
^If they're referring to the one at the Amur shipyard, that's an Akula-I, not another Akula-II. The Indian government should ask for one of the Akula-IIs at Sevmash.
Posts: 1,482
By: JangBoGo - 31st March 2013 at 17:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Russia is no India. For all projects that belongs to the top priority in Russian national defence, they dont wait for others and and are fairly on time. Two examples are - PAK-FA & Pr.955 Borei.
So dont get surprised if you see 8 x Pr.955 in service by 2020 as planned. In addition to these, there will be 6 x Pr.636.3, atleast 4 x Pr.677 and Pr.885. All of these belong to the so called 4th gen.
Don't expect the Russian 5th gen to be as facy stuff as what DCN and others showcase at various expos. Russian designs are mainly on conventional lines. So the current 4th Gen Pr.885 & Pr.955 might be the base for the 5th Gen sub which could turn out to be the Pr.885M and Pr.955M. But that is just a guess.
Posts: 9,579
By: TR1 - 31st March 2013 at 20:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
None left. The only partially completed 971 left is @ Amur.
It can be completed to same standard as Nerpa in any case.
Regarding new project numbers, I don't see more than 10 955 + 855 in service by/through 2020. Probably closer to 8 in total.
Posts: 241
By: YU1 - 2nd April 2013 at 08:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That doesn't sound too far fetched to me but might turn out to be someone's idea of a April Fools' Day joke.
Posts: 96
By: Bellum - 2nd April 2013 at 09:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some pics of the first project 22350 fregate from last month:
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=327726&download=2
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=327730&download=2
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=327733&download=2
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=327734&download=2
Posts: 374
By: a89 - 2nd April 2013 at 11:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Apparently it is, although the piece of "news" was well written.
Posts: 452
By: Stonewall - 2nd April 2013 at 17:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Any forecast for start of sea-trials?
Posts: 3,609
By: Wanshan - 3rd April 2013 at 00:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What's with retaining those awkward hangar barn doors?!
Posts: 9,579
By: TR1 - 4th April 2013 at 21:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=328070&download=2
Looks good.