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By: - 15th July 2004 at 23:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very interesting.
400km would make it the longest ranged supersonic anti-ship missile anywhere. Warhead at 410 would be bigger than that for the Moskit arming the Sovremnies but at 6 m is about 1/3 smaller.
I haven't come across anything in the boards to even speculate what it might be called.
By: - 15th July 2004 at 23:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very interesting.400km would make it the longest ranged supersonic anti-ship missile anywhere. Warhead at 410 would be bigger than that for the Moskit arming the Sovremnies but at 6 m is about 1/3 smaller.
I haven't come across anything in the boards to even speculate what it might be called.
Bigger warhead and longer range but shorter length. Does that suggest a subsonic flight profile... at least for the cruising phase?
By: - 16th July 2004 at 01:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Could this be the Chinese answer to Brahmos? Whatever it is, it is BIG!
By: - 16th July 2004 at 03:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Uhh, I thought the Kh-22 was something like 500kms++
Also what about the KSR-5/N/P with 400kms?
By: - 16th July 2004 at 04:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The missile is believed to be YJ-12A (or even YJ-62)...
YJ-12A installed on test ship 970 ...
YJ-12A model installed on 170 (052C) in May ...
And in June ...
By: - 16th July 2004 at 06:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Makes me wonder why China had to buy those two new Sovremannies.
Progress on the 052C and its weapons system are so fast that it makes the 956EM and the 052B look like PCs---obsolete before they're in service.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 06:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very interesting.400km would make it the longest ranged supersonic anti-ship missile anywhere. Warhead at 410 would be bigger than that for the Moskit arming the Sovremnies but at 6 m is about 1/3 smaller.
I haven't come across anything in the boards to even speculate what it might be called.
Umm......P-700 is 550+ km and around mach 1.7-2.5
By: - 16th July 2004 at 13:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Makes me wonder why China had to buy those two new Sovremannies.Progress on the 052C and its weapons system are so fast that it makes the 956EM and the 052B look like PCs---obsolete before they're in service.
Makes one wonder indeed, but I think the Sovs make a valuable addition in the numbers game. Basically the first two were bought in I believe as a 'stop gap' deterrent in an effort to ward off American Carriers with their Sunburn supersonic AShMs. With more time on their hands, the Chinese have been able to tailor-build the second two Sovs, the 956EM, to better suit their requirements. I mean who knows how long it will be before we see a 3rd and 4th 052C class, and even more of the simpler 052B? In the meantime the Sovs, eventually all 4 of them, make up the numbers, and with their still potent standard and improved Sunburn anti-ship missiles, make fairly capable additions. And at the same time improving the numbers of heavily armed hulls that the PLAN can have ready to sail at any one time.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 13:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Holy cow, that's a large diameter missile. Even bigger than the Sunburn? Here are some Kh-41 specs for comparison..
Lenght: 9.75 m(3M80E)
Diameter: 76 cm
Span: 130 cm(wings folded), 210 cm (wings spread)
Weight total: 4150-4500 kg(3M80E)
Warhead: 320 kg HE
Propulsion: solid propellant booster + ramjet sustainer
Sustainer engine: 3D83 ramjet(developed by MKB Soyus):
- firing velocity: Mach 1.8 - 2.5
- burning time: 250 seconds
Flight speed: Mach 3(at high altitude), mach 2.35 at low altitude and Mach 2.5 at terminal stage
Guidance: inertia, active radar homing (GosNII "Al´tair")
Range: low altitude launch: 150-180 km, high altitude launch: up to 250 km
By: - 16th July 2004 at 13:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Must be a fairly efficient missile if it has half the weight of the Sunburn, 2/3 of the diameter, and a larger payload. Well, I guess the Sunburn is dated technology at any rate.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 16:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Uhh, I thought the Kh-22 was something like 500kms++
Also what about the KSR-5/N/P with 400kms?
Both air launched. Didn't consider them.
Umm......P-700 is 550+ km and around mach 1.7-2.5
I did miss this one though. I totally overlooked the older gen Sandbox and Shipwreck. Those were/are part of the nuclear arsenal and are strategic weapons as well as a tactical anti-ship missiles. They're HUGE. Can't be fired except from giants like the Kutnetsov CG, the Oscar SSGN. etc.
I was thinking in terms of the modern supersonic anti-ship missiles like Sunburn and Brahmos.
But you're right, hyperwarp. The SS-N-12 and SS-N-19 are weapons in a class of their own. The Sandbox at 12 m long is twice the size of this new Chinese weapon.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 16:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Could this be the Chinese answer to Brahmos? Whatever it is, it is BIG!
The answer they're looking for is the one for US CVNs, not another anti-ship missile :) And it's not big in comparision to the other new AShMs at .52m diameter and 6m length if the Janes report is correct. In fact, it is much smaller.
By: - 17th July 2004 at 01:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
whose individual canisters are 8-10m long and about 1.5m in diameter.
With canisters of that size I suspect the missile might be longer than 6m, or have a booster attached to it within the canister which could explain its extra range. If so, it would still be pretty damn big as one combined unit. Time will tell again....
By: - 17th July 2004 at 04:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Makes one wonder indeed, but I think the Sovs make a valuable addition in the numbers game. Basically the first two were bought in I believe as a 'stop gap' deterrent in an effort to ward off American Carriers with their Sunburn supersonic AShMs. With more time on their hands, the Chinese have been able to tailor-build the second two Sovs, the 956EM, to better suit their requirements. I mean who knows how long it will be before we see a 3rd and 4th 052C class, and even more of the simpler 052B? In the meantime the Sovs, eventually all 4 of them, make up the numbers, and with their still potent standard and improved Sunburn anti-ship missiles, make fairly capable additions. And at the same time improving the numbers of heavily armed hulls that the PLAN can have ready to sail at any one time.
Yeah, it's probably to add to the numbers. I have a distinct impression that the PLAN is very happy with their Sovremannies and felt it deserves a sequel. Likewise too, they seem happy with their Kilos, despite some earlier training mishaps.
The 052B seems to be like a transition model, even an experiment, like the 051B Luhai 167. Nice ships they are, I don't think they're going to build more of them.
I think 052C is the way to go for the PLAN's future.
I have another theory is that Chinese shipyards currently has a massive backlog on commercial orders. A ship for the PLAN is one less export order, and therefore, money, unless military ships are exported to like say, Pakistan or Thailand. Russian shipyards, on the other hand, are desperate for work, and are more than eager to take up the slack.
The intramural scandals among the Russians jockeying for the 956EM contracts did give a very negative impression to the Chinese leadership, one which clearly threatens the prospect of future orders. The Russians have a lot riding on the 956EM as well as on the Kilo contracts, and need to regain a good impression with the Chinese leadership. But I think the prospect that the Chinese ordering another destroyer from the Russians now seem dim, given the fact that I think the 052C Red Aegis marks a major turning point for the PLAN and Chinese warship development. Future Chinese orders may probably be limited to more Kilo buys, as well as Tarantula missile boats, the latter now embellished with the improved Sunburn missiles.
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By: google - 15th July 2004 at 22:53
Please don't post elsewhere, thanks.
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2004
JANE'S MISSILES AND ROCKETS - AUGUST 01, 2004
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China's Type 052C destroyer armed with new anti-ship missile
David C Isby
A new Chinese-designed anti-ship guided missile may form the anti-ship armament of the latest Type 052C destroyer, writes David C Isby. Currently under construction, the ship is reported to carry two four-canister mounts, whose individual canisters are 8-10m long and about 1.5m in diameter.
These dimensions suggest that the canisters are for a larger weapon than the C-803/YJ-82 missiles used on earlier Luhai-class and Type 052B destroyers. This missile could be the C-xxx, which is known to have been under development for a number of years. Development of a land-attack version has also been reported.
In 1999 China displayed a model of what was described at the time as a surface-launched land-attack cruise missile. The missile appeared similar to the Russian Kh-15 (AS-16 ' 'Kickback') air-to-surface weapon. Another new design is believed to have a length of 6m, a body diameter of 0.52m, and a weight of 1,600-2,000kg at launch. Maximum range is 400km when carrying a 150-410kg high-explosive warhead at high supersonic speed.
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