Read the forum code of contact
By: - 15th July 2004 at 15:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Several months ago, same place, but with a different sub ...
By: - 15th July 2004 at 15:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
039A is the 039 with a reworked sail.
It looks like a Kilo and has the same torpedo tubes arrangements with rows of two and four in the bow as well as the hump.
But the sail even without the stabilizers seems different. A little bit taller and slimmer than a Kilo's but that could be just the angle.
The background also seems a little busy to pull off a PS job without some obvious indicator.
So a very interesting picture indeed. But I would have to lean towards a kilo because the bow looks exactly like one.
By: - 15th July 2004 at 16:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Looks like a Kilo, smells like a Kilo, weighs a kilo. :D
By: - 15th July 2004 at 16:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Fairly certain pic no.3 is a 039A SONG class.
By: - 15th July 2004 at 17:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It probably is faked but you can't tell by blowing up the photo like you did.
The mirage-like lines that happen when in compressed formats like JPEG when the picture is blown up don't signify fake. This happens when the program exporting the compressed photo attempts to deal with edges.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 02:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
the new sub is definitely real ;)
By: - 16th July 2004 at 03:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
039A is the 039 with a reworked sail.
No, the one you mentioned is named 039G (G means GAI in chinese pinyin) indeed. The real 039A is believed to be the above new sub.
039G ...
By: - 16th July 2004 at 05:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Personally I think it could be a new Kilo. Is this China's Kilo copy? Or is this one of the new enhanced Kilo 636 with the Clubs? Maybe the Kilo 636 reporting can be in error, but this is a new Kilo variant.
It's got to be a Kilo. No way it's a Song, man. But it's not like any
Kilo we have seen before. The stabilizers are there for real, not fake. This is a new Kilo *and* a new Kilo variant.
I also wish to add that the first of the 8 new Kilos China ordered from Russia was already launched one or two months ago.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 06:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
look it again
look at the blown up pictures half way down the sub you can actually see the slice when they edit a kilo and the top half of a song sub.and also the jagged line look at the front object they no jagged line. or the background object. It a ps kilo!....
By: - 16th July 2004 at 07:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yuan-class of submarine
"China's naval buildup has produced a new type of attack submarine that U.S. intelligence did not know was under construction, according to U.S. defense and intelligence officials.
The submarine was spotted several weeks ago for the first time and has been designated by the Pentagon as the first Yuan-class of submarine."
For more:
By: - 16th July 2004 at 07:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That's isn't the top half of a Song sub in the Kilo. The Kilos are really built that way. Furthermore, the Kilo's sail is still different from the Song's. The stabilizers on the Kilo are thicker and slightly heavier than those in the Song.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 13:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I find it interesting that American's didn't know that China was building a new sub (Yuan Class). So much for American Intelligence!!!
By: - 16th July 2004 at 14:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So what is it, a clone copy of the Kilo, or something built with Kilo tech?
Isn't this rather suspicious that Bill Gertz suddenly wrote this article after this picture was just released a few days ago?
By: - 16th July 2004 at 16:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yeah, that's a fast one from Gertz :D
They've already named it the "Yuan"?
We have so far Han, Song, Yuan and Ming. They're missing the Tang dynasty between Han and Song.
None of them are the Chinese designations for these classes, FYI.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 17:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No, the one you mentioned is named 039G (G means GAI in chinese pinyin) indeed. The real 039A is believed to be the above new sub.039G ...
How can you name something 039A when it's not a derivative of the base class, 039? This one looks nothing like a Song and if it's real would be a derivitive of the Kilo.
If true, this would mean four different SSKs in the PLAN (Ming, Song, Kilo and this new one - actually five, if you include the old Romeos too)! It's like the fighter programs. It would seem there are way too many of them.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 18:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I still think it's a Kilo for me. I must add that if you go back two years back, you would heard that China was interested in licensing the Kilo. If China is indeed licensing the Kilo, the 8 Kilos China ordered was the expected requisite to such a license, as many Russian licensing deals have requisites that you have to buy a certain quantity from directly.
By: - 16th July 2004 at 21:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Chinese produce new type of sub
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published July 16, 2004
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
China's naval buildup has produced a new type of attack submarine that U.S. intelligence did not know was under construction, according to U.S. defense and intelligence officials.
The submarine was spotted several weeks ago for the first time and has been designated by the Pentagon as the first Yuan-class of submarine.
A photograph of the completed submarine in the water at China's Wuhan shipyard was posted on a Chinese Internet site this week and confirmed by a defense official as the new submarine. Wuhan is located inland, some 420 miles west of Shanghai.
One official said the new submarine was a "technical surprise" to U.S. intelligence, which was unaware that Beijing was building a new non-nuclear powered attack submarine. U.S. intelligence agencies have few details about the new submarine but believe it is diesel-powered rather than nuclear-powered, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The new boat, which appears to be a combination of indigenous Chinese hardware and Russian weapons, suggests that China is building up its submarine forces in preparation for a conflict over Taiwan, defense analysts say.
"China has decided submarines are its first-line warships now, their best shot at beating carriers," said Sid Trevethan, an Alaska-based specialist on the Chinese military. "And China is right."
"One has to marvel at the enormity of the investment by the People's Liberation Army in submarines," said Richard Fisher, a specialist on the Chinese military.
China also is building two nuclear-powered submarines -- one Type 093, believed to be based on the Russian Victor-III class and armed with intercontinental ballistic missiles, and a Type 094 attack submarine, which the Pentagon believes has a finished hull and will be ready for deployment next year.
According to Mr. Trevethan, China currently has a force of 57 deployed submarines, including one Xia-class nuclear ballistic missile submarine, five Han submarines, four Kilos, seven Songs, 18 Mings and 22 Soviet-designed Romeos. Beijing also has eight more Kilos on order with Russia.
Disclosure of the new submarine comes as the United States is trying to sell eight diesel submarines to Taiwan, which Beijing views as a breakaway province. Taiwan currently has just two World War II-era Guppy-class submarines and two 1980s Dutch submarines.
Mr. Fisher, an analyst with the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said that despite the imbalance of power on the Taiwan Strait in favor of Beijing, the Bush administration has been slow to sell the submarines it offered Taiwan in April 2001.
"It is simply appalling that the United States cannot get its act together to organize the production of eight new submarines for Taiwan," Mr. Fisher said.
U.S. defense officials have said delays with the Taiwan submarine deal are the result of the Taipei government's budget problems.
Chinese leaders told National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice last week that China would "not sit idly by" as Taiwan moved toward formal independence, and President Hu Jintao denounced U.S. weapons sales to Taiwan.
But Miss Rice said the United States will go ahead with its Taiwan arms sales plan because of China's missile buildup opposite the island.
A Pentagon report made public in May stated that China is changing its warship forces from a coastal defense force to one employing "active offshore defense."
"This change in operations requires newer, more modern warships and submarines capable of operating at greater distances from China's coast for longer periods," the report said, noting that submarine construction is a top priority.
Mr. Fisher said the Chinese submarine buildup should prompt the Pentagon to step up U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities, which he said are "at an historic low" because of cutbacks in specialized ships and aircraft.
The Navy should consider building its own diesel attack submarine to be able to "effectively duke it out with the new tidal wave of Chinese subs, that if left unchecked, may soon dominate the Asian littoral regions," Mr. Fisher said.
The Pentagon is also building up U.S. naval forces in the Pacific, with the addition of up to six attack submarines in Guam and the possible deployment of an aircraft carrier battle group to Hawaii in the coming months.
By: - 17th July 2004 at 20:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There is some musing in the Chinese forum with a new SSK launched recently from Wuhan (maybe this one?) called Type 54. The features attributed to it borders on the amazing if not unbelievable so I left it in the speculation thread :p
but if you're interested ...
http://forum.airforces.info/showthread.php?p=414355#post414355
By: - 18th July 2004 at 14:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Personally I think it could be a new Kilo.
The hump on the Kilo's hull does not extend as far to the front of
the sub (this design similar to German product) as this one does and, it does not
have as many torpedo tubes (5 tubes on visible side) as this one.
Remember: This sub was first spotted by US Intelligence.
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040716-123134-8152r.htm
It was not done by some two bit computer geek on a PC.
More envious rusty buckets, shall we say :)???
Posts: 71
By: digdream - 15th July 2004 at 15:03
Found in Wu Han ...
It's obviously not Kilo or Song (039), but maybe named 039A with AIP installed...
I know somebody will think it as PSed ...