CVF News

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13 years 10 months

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Does anyone have any up to date news on CVF developments? I undestand that the UK MoD were planning to sign on the dotted line at the end of the year, is this still planned?
Original post
Maybe end of the year. Maybe next year. We just don't know yet.

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13 years 7 months

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My feeling is we will see the two CVF hulls, but whether there will be enough destroyers/frigates and F35's left in the program for the hulls to be of any value is another question.
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Sadly, Turbinia is right, there will be two large CVF hulls (which I am strongly in favour of), but very few ships to actually escort them! It is looking like there may only be 6 Type 45, 12 frigates, and 6 Astutes, which is simply not enough. On the other hand, once the carriers are bought, hopefully more escorts will be bought, though not if the current budget remains (i.e. if Gordon Brown moves next door).
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My feeling is we will see the two CVF hulls, but whether there will be enough destroyers/frigates and F35's left in the program for the hulls to be of any value is another question.
Not ot mention that the CVF's equipment fit will likely be somewhat sparse. I can see a very liberal use of the phrase 'fitted for but not with' when the CVF is finally launched.
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On the other hand, it is perhaps better to get a 60,000 ton carrier fitted 'for but not with', than to get a 40,000 ton one with a full set of systems. It would be my hope that by the time the carriers are launched, they will get a full suite of CIWS (Millenium gun or Goalkeeper perhaps) and missiles (RAM and perhaps Aster 15).
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14 years 11 months

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On the other hand, it is perhaps better to get a 60,000 ton carrier fitted 'for but not with', than to get a 40,000 ton one with a full set of systems. It would be my hope that by the time the carriers are launched, they will get a full suite of CIWS (Millenium gun or Goalkeeper perhaps) and missiles (RAM and perhaps Aster 15).
You can hope until you are blue in the face but it aint gonna happen.
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AND RAF crews flying off them........not a very good state of affairs.
Sadly, Turbinia is right, there will be two large CVF hulls (which I am strongly in favour of), but very few ships to actually escort them! It is looking like there may only be 6 Type 45, 12 frigates, and 6 Astutes, which is simply not enough. On the other hand, once the carriers are bought, hopefully more escorts will be bought, though not if the current budget remains (i.e. if Gordon Brown moves next door).
I am lost here? Would a CVF escort of 1-2 T 45's with 2-3 Frigates plus a 1-2 Submarines (Astute?) be typical for a RN Carrier Battle Group? :rolleyes:
AND RAF crews flying off them........not a very good state of affairs.
I would have to agree and no offense to the RAF. Personally, the CVF's would be better off flying F-35C with the RAF operating F-35B's from Amphibious Ships like HMS Ocean..............IMO :rolleyes: FLY NAVY :cool:
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It didnt work in the 20s and 30s (RAF flying from RN carriers) You'd think that lesson would have been learned waaaaayy back then!
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Unfortunately dear chap, the military and politicians rarely bother to trouble themselves with history, hence they are doomed to repeat it. Unicorn

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"I am lost here? Would a CVF escort of 1-2 T 45's with 2-3 Frigates plus a 1-2 Submarines (Astute?) be typical for a RN Carrier Battle Group?" Scooter, that would be fine if the only thing you were going to be doing was just those 2 CVF BGs, and 2 LSD/Bay-class RFA amphib groups with one T-45 & 2 Frigates each! Unfortunately, that leaves nothing for any other duties at all... and the RN currently uses as many Destroyers/Frigates for single-ship anti-piracy/show-the-flag/disaster-relief missions as it does for escorting CVS Illustrious/Ark Royal, LPH Ocean, LSD Albion/Bulwark, LSL, etc. Unless something changes, either in procurement numbers or in reducing UK commitments/presence world-wide, there simply won't be enough escorts to go around after ~2015!
Unless something changes, either in procurement numbers or in reducing UK commitments/presence world-wide, there simply won't be enough escorts to go around after ~2015!
Then we can let other countries do the thankless anti-piracy and disaster relief work. :D I don't think things will necessarily be as bad as some people here say. The QEII class will come with things like Phalanx or Goalkeeper fitted. SeaRAM isn't on the horizon at the moment because the RN believes the threat from small littoral vessels is more serious - at the moment SeaRAM can't quite do the job versus those things. I'm not sure of the odds of an anti-ship missile slipping through the destroyer/frigate screen, being shot down by SeaRAM but not a CIWS would be. As to escorts, once the big projects have been provided for it will release cash for other things. I don't see more frigates being sold off until a replacement has been agreed upon, and hopefully we will get more T-45s in the future. Seriously I don't even think it's worth grumbling about at the moment, while so many balls are still up in the air.
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13 years 9 months

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AND RAF crews flying off them........not a very good state of affairs.
What made them decide to do it like that?
What made them decide to do it like that?
They didn't want the RAF to fight them over the funding on new Carriers! So, make them part of it...............just politics in the end! :(
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The main problem I have is that main gate should of been long ago! What we have instead is constant avoidance by the MOD by pointless studies and reviews which waste money and only serves to pull the wool over the public eye's. The simple fact is the Treasury (led by Gordon Brown) doesn't want to spend the money required for main gate but the government (led by Blair) doesn't want the embarrassment of cancellation. It's basically a battle between the Brownites and the Blairerites. It's easier for the Treasury to drip feed funding to keep it alive then to cause a storm and kill the project. This will all come to a head when Blair is replaced probably by Brown. There are plenty of left wing Brown allies who would be happy to see Britains armed forces cut down to a bare minimum self defence force. It's the navy and British industry that will loose out, at this rate a time will come when British industry will not be able to shoulder new orders. The best we can hope for on the carrier front is an order for the first hull probably with far greater French input along the lines of the French providing some or more of the major hull sections.
Which, is why I believe the airwing for the CVF's should be wholey RN with the RAF operating F-35B's in a supporting role for the Army. This would mirrior the USN and USMC concept.................makes sense!
Fedaykin, so are you saying that CVF won't happen (at least as planned with two hulls of 65,000 t)? I know exactly how you feel, but I think you're over-reacting.

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I have always thought that the CVF design was too ambitious for the UK's resources. I think fantasy overpowered reality with the decision makers on this program.
Oh, I believe the CVF's and the F-35B's will go forward! Way to much on the line for it not to go through.................with jobs at the top of the list! :rolleyes: