Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

21 years 9 months

Posts: 985

It's correct, two ii, non standard Latin/Italian plural form of Scenario.

Profile picture for user dko

Member for

8 years 11 months

Posts: 93

Do you think that MOD has the ability with military satellites (high resolution) to see around
the crash area and recognize items or human remains?

Profile picture for user l.garey

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,103

Large items, yes. Human remains, no.

Profile picture for user beachcomber

Member for

10 years 9 months

Posts: 251

I can see the frustration of the present situation is spilling out into this forum. Surely if our publicly elected representatives are not going to investigate this then it needs to be brought to a wider audience, shaming them into action!

Just a thought... was there any sort of extensive searching done on the immediate site after the p40 was removed??

I don't think anybody apart from the recovery team is aware of what went on during the recovery, and that information isn't yet available.

It is worth noting, though, that an alternative plan (linked to a possible documentary film) provided for a detailed forensic/osteological/archaeological examination and excavation of the immediate area surrounding the P40 in case remains were just below the sand. This was to have been carried out before the P40 was moved. It is not known if such a plan was executed during the P40 recovery, though. If any such searches were conducted then I do not believe the family have been notified; either of (a) any such search, or, (b) any result of such a search - albeit that, by now, one must assume that such a search (if carried out) produced a negative result.

My money would be on no meaningful search having been conducted by the recovery crew, but we will have to wait and see.

Member for

21 years 9 months

Posts: 9,780

I find it amazing the lack of information on the recovery of this aircraft ! This was the recovery of a seventy year old aircraft wreck and not a stealth aircraft. Whilst there is undoubtedly politics in the region its one of the strangest recoveries I have ever heard of.

Unfortunately, we have been told to wait for information for "good reason".

That "good reason" has also seen the temporary removal of the thread on the P40 itself, and warnings that if this thread strays into that forbidden territory then it might well follow suit.

Member for

11 years 1 month

Posts: 491

Qattara appears to have a web page, with quite a lot of information (unfortunately in Italian) and a couple of pictures of the recovery of a certain A/C.........

Profile picture for user Peter

Member for

21 years 9 months

Posts: 10,108

Couldn't agree more David!

Profile picture for user l.garey

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,103

I have just received a detailed reply from Capt Paul Collins, Defence Attaché in Cairo, with whom I was finally able to make contact via the Ambassador, James Watt who kindly transmitted my message yesterday.
I shall need some time to digest the contents of the message, and will report back.

A significant development, Laurence. We look forward to your further updates. Hopefully, this may go some way towards understanding what has gone on. At least, it may well be a step closer to the truth.

Whatever it is that Captain Collins has revealed it is to be hoped that there will be a further factual response from the Italian team and a move forward with both parties working together.

If this thread has, in some way, been instrumental in helping to bring that about then that can only be a good thing.

Profile picture for user l.garey

Member for

15 years 8 months

Posts: 2,103

As promised, I am reporting back on the note sent to me by the Defence Attaché in Cairo yesterday.

He states that he asked several times for the position of the human remains found by the Italian team so as to alert the Egyptian authorities, but as they were not given this information they are unable to proceed further. Any investigation of human remains in Egypt must be headed by the appropriate Egyptian authority. As recently as 1st November 2012 neither the Egyptian Police nor Army have any reports of the Italian group finding human remains in the Western Desert.

So it seems to boil down to a lack of communication on the one, the other, or both sides. I shall try to reconcile them to the best of my ability.

Member for

15 years

Posts: 8,936

That however does not explain him telling peeps that they are not our pilots remains though.

Member for

11 years 1 month

Posts: 491

On the web page I mentioned above there are a few gps co ordinates posted unfortunately my Italian (or lack of) means I don't know if it is the wreck site or the remains location.

Due to my low level of competence with all things computer I cannot post a link, but I found it on PPrune under p40 in the desert.

I think the important thing, now, is that the Italian team and MOD/British Embassy Cairo actually talk to each other and urgently - whatever has or has not happened with comms in the recent past. Both parties know where the other is, and so getting in touch should not be a problem.

Lets hope that Laurence can now help to take this forward.

I am as keen as the next person to see the debate on the P40 itself be resumed. However, for whatever reason the owners of this site decided that the discussion had to be suspended for the time being.

It does rather seem that discussion is being covertly (or perhaps overtly!) steered/encouraged in that direction.

It would be a shame if that resulted in this discussion being closed down, too.

I have today received a long letter from my MP. It doesn't add anything, but I quote :--

"As you are aware, some human remains have been discovered five miles from his plane. However, you will be pleased to hear that the Government is fully aware of this case. The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has stated that its representative in the British Embassy in Cairo is in contact with the team which discovered the body and it understands that investigations are under way in Egypt to identify the human remains.

The MOD has offered its assurances that it is in close contact with Flt Sgt Copping's family and will continue to keep them informed of developments."

Whilst things rumble on behind the scenes, and things may not in every respect be exactly as they have seemed or have been presented, it is still fair to say that the MPs statement, presumably based on information he has gleaned from the MOD, is not exactly accurate. Evidence and information from the Italian team, and from the British Embassy in Cairo, now make it clear that Cairo are not (or weren't then!) in touch with the Italians. So, that much is untrue or misleading. Equally, it is very clear that no investigations are underway in Egypt to identify the human remains.

Rather than porky-pies being told, I am starting to think that at least one element in this whole story is a series of misunderstandings and a breakdown of communications 'twixt Cairo and London. That does not make those failings in any way more excusable, but it does at least start to explain things.

Rather than recriminations, or any post-mortem on what the failings have been, it is now important that the Italian team and the Embassy in Cairo (Captain Collins) are in contact.

We cannot expect Captain Collins to report on this forum, and clearly he wont, but hopefully at least Qattara, who isn't bound by such restrictions, can come back here and tell us that things are now moving in the right direction? That said, I rather imagine that the focus off all attention in the Defence section at the British Embassy, Cairo, is rather more focussed on Gaza at this time.