By: Vega ECM
- 1st January 2018 at 21:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And of course we're the nice guys ?
Remember in 1956 we along with a few others, created a fictional reason to attack Egypt and in the process killed somewhere between 2500-4000 of there citizens.........and we ourselves failed to achieve our objectives ......yes we lost.
There's a lot of history and you mustn't be too selective.
By: QldSpitty
- 1st January 2018 at 23:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Im working off memory but didnt the Malta Aviation Museum have a sea recovered P40 on display that has been perfectly preserved and on display.Or am I thinking of a different Museum.
By: l.garey
- 2nd January 2018 at 10:03Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I was just sent this certificate of Dennis Copping's inscription on the El Alamein memorial. Maybe it has already been posted, but if so I can't find it.
By: Propstrike
- 3rd January 2018 at 17:40Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Daily Mail is on the case now, with enough outrage for everyone !
''Egyptians give World War Two RAF Kittyhawk plane which crashed in the Sahara desert 70 years ago a 'hideous' shark's teeth makeover making it look 'like a badly-made AirFix model''
By: Moggy C
- 4th January 2018 at 09:20Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am not aware that anyone here even knew what was happening to the aircraft. There were rumours it was still in its container, or that it was in the US. The thought of a shambolic restoration by the Egyptians was never mooted.
By: Bruce
- 4th January 2018 at 09:48Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Up until just a few months ago, as far as was known, the aircraft remained in its container. It was known that it hadn't been exported to the USA. Professional help would probably have been forthcoming had it been requested (from one quarter or another) - so it would be fair to assume that it wasn't.
By: Sabrejet
- 4th January 2018 at 12:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Those Mail readers' comments are hilarious: if ever anyone needed a better demonstration of how ill-informed and ignorant most of their readership is, then this is the one you should hold forth.
By: Bruce
- 4th January 2018 at 12:27Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks to Robin for posting that very detailed narrative, which supports what I have posted since the news broke of the aircraft's restoration and display.
Clearly, the RAF Museum put in a great deal of time and effort in order to repatriate the aircraft, and to treat it carefully to ensure its survival. Based on the note by Ian Thirsk, reproduced above, it is clear that the work that has been undertaken has not considered the needs of the artefact in the same way as would have been done in a professional museum environment. A missed opportunity for all of us, and particularly for the museum in Egypt I feel.
By: Aviart
- 4th January 2018 at 12:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
"Those Mail readers' comments are hilarious: if ever anyone needed a better demonstration of how ill-informed and ignorant most of their readership is, then this is the one you should hold forth."
It is you who is ignorant of the fact that people from other walks of life do and will have differing opinions to yours. It is a national newspaper and the comments section on their website is open to anyone and everyone. Obviously, not every single person is as into aircraft or aviation history as the members of this specialist "aviation" forum. They simply will not see that wreck as being as historically important as we do (or did). "One man's trash is another man's treasure"...
By: l.garey
- 4th January 2018 at 13:09Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Moggy: it seems from the Telegraph article that the RAFM knew that there were plans to display the aircraft at El Alamein: The process to achieve delivery to the UK was complicated by the political situation in Egypt. The government there said they intended to display it at the El Alamein Museum.
Posts: 472
By: Vega ECM - 1st January 2018 at 21:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And of course we're the nice guys ?
Remember in 1956 we along with a few others, created a fictional reason to attack Egypt and in the process killed somewhere between 2500-4000 of there citizens.........and we ourselves failed to achieve our objectives ......yes we lost.
There's a lot of history and you mustn't be too selective.
Posts: 2,605
By: QldSpitty - 1st January 2018 at 23:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Im working off memory but didnt the Malta Aviation Museum have a sea recovered P40 on display that has been perfectly preserved and on display.Or am I thinking of a different Museum.
Posts: 1,772
By: Consul - 2nd January 2018 at 00:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
QldSpitty. I suspect you are thinking of the example now displayed in Italy:
http://p40hawksnest.co.nf/Survivors/42-10857.html
Posts: 923
By: jack windsor - 2nd January 2018 at 09:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
if the 1943 event had not been successful, then the 1956 event would not have been possible...and history good or bad is where we've come from.
Posts: 2,119
By: l.garey - 2nd January 2018 at 10:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I was just sent this certificate of Dennis Copping's inscription on the El Alamein memorial. Maybe it has already been posted, but if so I can't find it.
Posts: 3,902
By: Propstrike - 3rd January 2018 at 17:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Daily Mail is on the case now, with enough outrage for everyone !
''Egyptians give World War Two RAF Kittyhawk plane which crashed in the Sahara desert 70 years ago a 'hideous' shark's teeth makeover making it look 'like a badly-made AirFix model''
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5231593/Egyptians-World-War-II-RAF-Kittyhawk-plane-makeover.html#ixzz53914dkOk
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 3rd January 2018 at 18:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If the comments section is anything to go by, the average Daily Mail reader is happy with the restoration!
Posts: 1,813
By: Planemike - 3rd January 2018 at 21:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Meddle............Not exactly true, would described the reaction as "mixed".....
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 3rd January 2018 at 22:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If you follow the green arrows, the most popular comment is:
'That's exactly how some pilots had them painted,non story!'
The top rated comments are all positive in favour of the restoration.
Posts: 1,444
By: Junk Collector - 3rd January 2018 at 22:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Everything in that rag is outrage, fury etc
Posts: 10,029
By: Mark12 - 4th January 2018 at 08:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Half a page and three photos in today's Times.
Headed - Wartime fighter 'ruined by hideous makeover'
Mark
Posts: 187
By: otis - 4th January 2018 at 09:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Does anyone know if professional assistance, from the likes of the experts here, was offered to the El Alamein museum in their restoration?
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 4th January 2018 at 09:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am not aware that anyone here even knew what was happening to the aircraft. There were rumours it was still in its container, or that it was in the US. The thought of a shambolic restoration by the Egyptians was never mooted.
Moggy
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 4th January 2018 at 09:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Up until just a few months ago, as far as was known, the aircraft remained in its container. It was known that it hadn't been exported to the USA. Professional help would probably have been forthcoming had it been requested (from one quarter or another) - so it would be fair to assume that it wasn't.
Different standards.
Posts: 476
By: SqL Scramble. - 4th January 2018 at 12:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Daily Telegraph article here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/03/aviation-historians-express-anger-lost-world-war-two-fighter/
Posts: 1,829
By: Sabrejet - 4th January 2018 at 12:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Those Mail readers' comments are hilarious: if ever anyone needed a better demonstration of how ill-informed and ignorant most of their readership is, then this is the one you should hold forth.
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 4th January 2018 at 12:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is that factual, or is it still at N Weald?
Moggy
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 4th January 2018 at 12:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks to Robin for posting that very detailed narrative, which supports what I have posted since the news broke of the aircraft's restoration and display.
Clearly, the RAF Museum put in a great deal of time and effort in order to repatriate the aircraft, and to treat it carefully to ensure its survival. Based on the note by Ian Thirsk, reproduced above, it is clear that the work that has been undertaken has not considered the needs of the artefact in the same way as would have been done in a professional museum environment. A missed opportunity for all of us, and particularly for the museum in Egypt I feel.
Moggy - the Spitfire is not at North Weald.
Posts: 97
By: Aviart - 4th January 2018 at 12:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
"Those Mail readers' comments are hilarious: if ever anyone needed a better demonstration of how ill-informed and ignorant most of their readership is, then this is the one you should hold forth."
It is you who is ignorant of the fact that people from other walks of life do and will have differing opinions to yours. It is a national newspaper and the comments section on their website is open to anyone and everyone. Obviously, not every single person is as into aircraft or aviation history as the members of this specialist "aviation" forum. They simply will not see that wreck as being as historically important as we do (or did). "One man's trash is another man's treasure"...
Posts: 2,119
By: l.garey - 4th January 2018 at 13:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Moggy: it seems from the Telegraph article that the RAFM knew that there were plans to display the aircraft at El Alamein: The process to achieve delivery to the UK was complicated by the political situation in Egypt. The government there said they intended to display it at the El Alamein Museum.