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By: - 29th September 2000 at 15:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Zeeshan
Have seen the captured aircraft myself, good pics but I feel you are trying to provoke people by doing this, the IAF has the same sort of (gun camera!?) footage like the PAF...............
Have seen that too!
SO
By: - 29th September 2000 at 17:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Yes Zeeshan
Rare pics indeed! Not like the plethora of photographs of 90,000 Pakistani soldiers laying down arms before the Indians at Dhaka at 1971....Or the famous one of Lt. Gen Niazi signing the instrument of surrender.....or the infamous ones of unclaimed bodies of Northern Light Infantry soldiers lying in the rocky wastes of Kargil ( who the Indians gave a proper military burial many a times under fire from Pak Artillery)
...Or perhaps we should focus on the most poignant photographs of last months UN millenium summit where an isolated Musharraf was raving and ranting on (what else) Kashmir while the Indian PM was the toast of the town partnering the US in determining the World's future ( and before this invites any sarcastic comments....just check out how many Indians are instrumental in driving the medium we are using - The Internet).
Get a life guys and get real!
By: - 29th September 2000 at 20:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Actually my real intentions were to collect any other available pics and not to show that Indian pilots like to surrender insted of fighting.
dont care what Indian think.
By: - 29th September 2000 at 21:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
You know, some of you got problems...this guy provided pictures...i don't see most people go to the length providing pictures, just damn hypocritcal talks...thanks, i like the pics, got any in colour? I like to download them with infos, ie where, when, and possible stories...i'll share with you a new Ramjet missile most of you probably never seen before...it's not secret but just most don't pay attention to it...
By: - 29th September 2000 at 21:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Correction to Zeeshan.
I saw IAF Gnat at PAF Museum Shar-e-Faisal AB which also has Afghan AF SU-22. I have the photos at the Musem but don't have a scanner.
By: - 29th September 2000 at 23:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
here is the colour pic......I am looking for more pics of Oreagon plane.
http://www.pafmuseum.com.pk/contents/vtour24.htm
By: - 30th September 2000 at 13:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
I have one old pic.
http://www.homestead.com/acsys/files/paf0001.JPG
By: - 30th September 2000 at 13:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
I am looking for such PAF kill pics.Please post or link to as many as possible.(if any more exist)
By: - 30th September 2000 at 14:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Here are some.
http://www.defendersofpakistan.com/pictures/shothunter1.jpg
http://www.defendersofpakistan.com/pictures/shothunter2.jpg
http://www.defendersofpakistan.com/pictures/shothunter3.jpg
By: - 30th September 2000 at 17:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Assalam oalaukum,
I have dozens of gun camera pics of Indian planes being destroyed on the ground...I dont know how to post them here from my hard drive.....need some help.
By: - 30th September 2000 at 19:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
>Do you guys have other pictures
>for me?
>
Sure we have! Cant resist your flame bait.
The date : 15 December 1971. The top generals of the East Pakistani Army command are busy negotiating thier surrender with Indian forces who are on the outskirts of dacca. Dacca is a virtual fortress, with more than 20000 troops and 25+ Tanks they have the means to hold out for more than a week, if they wanted to . the army decides to surrender and arrangements are made to surrender the next day.
There are 1000+ PAF Personnel in East paksitan at that time, including 10+ active pilots who have been grounded due to the incessant bombing of Dacca airfield which prevented thier Sabres from being used. The PAF claims they had 11 Sabres still intact, the IAF says that not more than half a dozen would have survived thier offensive. The PAF had all the time to set fire to these grounded aircraft and leave.....
Yet the Pilots fled to burma in the Mi-8 Choppers of the Army aviation squadron. they did not even find time to set fire or destroy the Sabres that they left behind at kurmitola. Ultimately the Air force of free bangladesh operated five of these abandoned Sabres in thier flegling airforce....
Does it make pakistani pilots any different.....
http:\\www.bharat-rakshak.com\IAF\History\1965War\Images\Sabre.jpg
I DONT THINK SO......
By: - 30th September 2000 at 19:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Oops the pic is
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1965War/Images/Sabre.jpg
By: - 30th September 2000 at 22:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Ajeet:
Sure we have! Cant resist your flame bait.
The date : 15 December 1971. The top generals of the East Pakistani Army command are busy negotiating thier surrender with Indian forces who are on the outskirts of dacca. Dacca is a virtual fortress, with more than 20000 troops and 25+ Tanks they have the means to hold out for more than a week, if they wanted to . the army decides to surrender and arrangements are made to surrender the next day.
Zeeshan:
You are kidding right!!!with at least 200,000 Indian troops closing in from all sides on Dhaka with absolute air space control,and hundreds of tanks rolling towards Dhaka, you really expected 20,000 regular and paramilitary troops to fight with 25 tanks!!!
By your own claim that Pakistan army could fight for another week without supplies and ammunition is a tribute to the fighting forces of Pakistan. But why make people suffer more when the war is surely lost?
It goes on to show that IAF with 11 squadrons and IN with two squadron took at least 7 and as much as 9 days to neutralize Pakistan air fore's single squadron of F-86 Sabers.
Pethetic performance by Indian forces for everyone to judge.
Air Marshal MM Singh (retd) of IAF writes in November 1991 AFM article :" PAF in E Pakistan consisted of a single squadron of F-86F Sabre fighters with some reserves and the airspace around Dhaka was observed by a early warning and GCI radars. Against this, EAC of the IAF had three Gnat MK1 squadrons, three hunter F-56 squadrons and three Mig-21FL squadrons. Later a squadron each of Su-7 strike fighters and Canberra bombers was also added to the EAC".
thats 11 squadrons of IAF alone against 1 PAF squadron.
then he writes:
" I must concede that PAF, being outnumbered and outclasses did put up a credible performance."
Ajeet:
There are 1000+ PAF Personnel in East paksitan at that time, including 10+ active pilots who have been grounded due to the incessant bombing of Dacca airfield which prevented thier Sabres from being used. The PAF claims they had 11 Sabres still intact, the IAF says that not more than half a dozen would have survived thier offensive. The PAF had all the time to set fire to these grounded aircraft and leave.....
Zeeshan:
......noooooo. PAF had no option but to seize operations due to runway destruction.
again here is what Air Marshal (retd) Arjun Singh has to say:
"We knew that PAF still had 10-12 Surviving Sabers which could still be airworthy and parked safely in blast pens.....and after the Pakistani surrender, we learned that although the PAF had 11 undemaged Sabers, there were no pilots."
Ajeet:
Yet the Pilots fled to burma in the Mi-8 Choppers of the Army aviation squadron.
Zeeshan: just a minor correction Pakistan did not have Russian made Mi-8 helicopters!! Indian did.
Pilots were sure evacuated to avoid capture to Burma but certainly not in Mi-8!
Ajeet:
they did not even find time to set fire or destroy the Sabres that they left behind at kurmitola. Ultimately the Air force of free bangladesh operated five of these abandoned Sabres in thier flegling airforce....
Zeeshan:
yes they were not destroyed in order to prevent furthur decline in the morale of Pak troops (which was already at all time low due to unholy odds against them). Instead engines were perforated with gun fire and wiring cut to prevent any immediate use of these aircrafts. It goes to the credit of Bangladesh mechanics which were PAKISTAN AIR FORCE trained to repair these aircrafts and return them to service.
Ajeet:
Does it make pakistani pilots any different.....
Zeeshan: may be you are missing the whole point. PAKISTAN AIR FORCE DID NOT LOWER THEIR FLAPs IN THE AIR AND SURRENDERED TO ENEMY LIKE INDIANS DID!!!!!!They had no runway to fly from so what else could they do????
By: - 30th September 2000 at 22:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
Ajeet:
Sure we have! Cant resist your flame bait.
The date : 15 December 1971. The top generals of the East Pakistani Army command are busy negotiating thier surrender with Indian forces who are on the outskirts of dacca. Dacca is a virtual fortress, with more than 20000 troops and 25+ Tanks they have the means to hold out for more than a week, if they wanted to . the army decides to surrender and arrangements are made to surrender the next day.
Zeeshan:
You are kidding right!!!with at least 200,000 Indian troops closing in from all sides on Dhaka with absolute air space control,and hundreds of tanks rolling towards Dhaka, you really expected 20,000 regular and paramilitary troops to fight with 25 tanks!!!
By your own claim that Pakistan army could fight for another week without supplies and ammunition is a tribute to the fighting forces of Pakistan. But why make people suffer more when the war is surely lost?
It goes on to show that IAF with 11 squadrons and IN with two squadron took at least 7 and as much as 9 days to neutralize Pakistan air fore's single squadron of F-86 Sabers.
Pethetic performance by Indian forces for everyone to judge.
Air Marshal MM Singh (retd) of IAF writes in November 1991 AFM article :" PAF in E Pakistan consisted of a single squadron of F-86F Sabre fighters with some reserves and the airspace around Dhaka was observed by a early warning and GCI radars. Against this, EAC of the IAF had three Gnat MK1 squadrons, three hunter F-56 squadrons and three Mig-21FL squadrons. Later a squadron each of Su-7 strike fighters and Canberra bombers was also added to the EAC".
thats 11 squadrons of IAF alone against 1 PAF squadron.
then he writes:
" I must concede that PAF, being outnumbered and outclasses did put up a credible performance."
Ajeet:
There are 1000+ PAF Personnel in East paksitan at that time, including 10+ active pilots who have been grounded due to the incessant bombing of Dacca airfield which prevented thier Sabres from being used. The PAF claims they had 11 Sabres still intact, the IAF says that not more than half a dozen would have survived thier offensive. The PAF had all the time to set fire to these grounded aircraft and leave.....
Zeeshan:
......noooooo. PAF had no option but to seize operations due to runway destruction.
again here is what Air Marshal (retd) Arjun Singh has to say:
"We knew that PAF still had 10-12 Surviving Sabers which could still be airworthy and parked safely in blast pens.....and after the Pakistani surrender, we learned that although the PAF had 11 undemaged Sabers, there were no pilots."
Ajeet:
Yet the Pilots fled to burma in the Mi-8 Choppers of the Army aviation squadron.
Zeeshan: just a minor correction Pakistan did not have Russian made Mi-8 helicopters!! Indian did.
Pilots were sure evacuated to avoid capture to Burma but certainly not in Mi-8!
Ajeet:
they did not even find time to set fire or destroy the Sabres that they left behind at kurmitola. Ultimately the Air force of free bangladesh operated five of these abandoned Sabres in thier flegling airforce....
Zeeshan:
yes they were not destroyed in order to prevent furthur decline in the morale of Pak troops (which was already at all time low due to unholy odds against them). Instead engines were perforated with gun fire and wiring cut to prevent any immediate use of these aircrafts. It goes to the credit of Bangladesh mechanics which were PAKISTAN AIR FORCE trained to repair these aircrafts and return them to service.
Ajeet:
Does it make pakistani pilots any different.....
Zeeshan: may be you are missing the whole point. PAKISTAN AIR FORCE DID NOT LOWER THEIR FLAPs IN THE AIR AND SURRENDERED TO ENEMY LIKE INDIANS DID!!!!!!They had no runway to fly from so what else could they do????
This picture was previously analyzed and one can see that cockpit appears to be demaged with what appears to be a bullet hole in the center front wind shield. Also on the ground one can see oil leek and right mid portion appears to have a burn mark. All consistent with the demaged aircraft.
By: - 1st October 2000 at 05:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Pakistani airforce planes
>Zeeshan:
>
>You are kidding right!!!with at least
>200,000 Indian troops closing in
>from all sides on Dhaka
>with absolute air space control,and
>hundreds of tanks rolling towards
>Dhaka, you really expected 20,000
>regular and paramilitary troops to
>fight with 25 tanks!!!
Zeeshan, you know and every pakistani here knows how the Pakistani "Fortress" Concept worked in towns like Bogra and Sylhet. These towns barricaded and defended did not fall till the ceasefire. If Niazi had decided, he could have held on for another week, inflicted great casualities on the attackers and on the defenders. But he did not, nor did other officers advise him. (may be he did, but he chickened out)
>By your own claim that Pakistan
>army could fight for another
>week without supplies and ammunition
>is a tribute to the
>fighting forces of Pakistan. But
>why make people suffer more >when the war is surely >lost?
So you agree war was lost, I had read many versions that claim Indians manipulated the "Ceasefire" Document into a "surrender" document in the last moment, thanks for giving us some credit. but it would be proper to say that fighting at that time would have resulted in loss of life, but maybe it would also have given the US Seventh fleet time to reach EP and the war could have been a ceasefire rather than a surrender.
>It goes on to show that
>IAF with 11 squadrons and
>IN with two squadron took
>at least 7 and as
>much as 9 days to
>neutralize Pakistan air fore's single
>squadron of F-86 Sabers.
>Pethetic performance by Indian forces for
>everyone to judge.
The PAF Sabres were neutralised in the first three days. this is according to Pakitani sources like piads. where did the "7" or "9" days come from?
>thats 11 squadrons of IAF alone
>against 1 PAF squadron.
>then he writes:
>" I must concede that PAF,
>being outnumbered and outclasses did
>put up a credible performance."
No body disputes that. The objective is not only to overwhelm the PAF but also to subdue the Pakistani Army on the ground. the reason the war ended so soon is credit to that. No body stopped Pakistan from basing more aircraft in East pakistan. why did not they do so, they had already given it up in thier minds. Paksitnais were more concerned about West Pakistan than saving East Pakistan. where there ever more planes on way to East Pakistan? I am not aware.
>Ajeet:
>There are 1000+ PAF Personnel in
>East paksitan at that time,
>including 10+ active pilots who
>Zeeshan:
>......noooooo. PAF had no option but
>to seize operations due to
>runway destruction.
There were the following personnel in East Pakistan
Officers : 61
JCOs : 91
Other Ranks: 1049
TOTAL (PAF): 1201
Surely you could some fifty of them could have made sure of either destroying or preparing the airfield so that the pilots could have taken off for burma? no body bothered.
>Ajeet:
>
>Zeeshan: just a minor correction
>Pakistan did not have Russian
>made Mi-8 helicopters!! Indian did.
>
>Pilots were sure evacuated to avoid
>capture to Burma but certainly
>not in Mi-8!
Read your Pakistani General Maj Gen Fazal Muqueem Khan's "Pakistan Crisis in Leadership" or Siddqi Sallk's" Witness to surrender" they clearly mention the presence of one AAC Sqn with Four Mi-8s and Four Allouttes IIIs.
In fact Maj Gen Akbar Khan (I think i got the name correct) who was wounded was evacuated in the same choppers along with the pilots.
>Zeeshan:
>yes they were not destroyed in
>order to prevent furthur decline
>in the morale of Pak
>troops (which was already at
>all time low due to
>unholy odds against them). Instead
>engines were perforated with gun
>fire and wiring cut to
>prevent any immediate use of
>these aircrafts. It goes to
Fine, if it helps the PAF's morale to see thier aircraft int he colors of thier enemy's then i cant say anything.
>This picture was previously analyzed and
>one can see that cockpit
>appears to be demaged with
>what appears to be a >bullet hole in the center >front wind shield. Also on >the ground one can see >oil leek and right mid
>portion appears to have a >burn mark. All consistent with >the demaged aircraft.
I would let the neutral and Non Pakistani visitors to this forum come to the Image Interpretation and Analysis. I can also start seeing "Holes" in the Gnat. and Obviosly the Ourgan "Did not lower it flaps" and "Land in an airfield" I can see it has "Belly landed" in an emergency situation.
Thank You
Ajeet
By: - 1st October 2000 at 18:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
You ruined this thread with that link.That site shows how much garbage the PAF really is.I've never seen so much raw hatred and rubbish - "Indian propoganda" - "Cecil chowdry was a christian showing that minorities in pakistan loved pakistan as much as Muslims"
,"PAF is better than Israeli airforce - 1% get selected" "Iaf Mig 27 SHOTDOWN"
I laughed myself to near death once again.What a bunch of rubbish.This once and for all proves the mentality of Pakis.I wonder who the Mental case author of that site is - if he's from the PAF,the even the ethiopian airforce could wipe it out!LOL!The mental psychopath also says India shot down their own An-12 while shooting a FILM!!!LOL!ROTFL.This is tooooo DAMN funny!!!
BTW:
The site also proved what a liar MM Alam was.The fucker has "11" kills painted on his sabre.I don't think such as liar could have anything near an "ace" status.
That site is nothing but a pure exhibition of frustration and mental instability of an immature low IQ pakistani who just can't accept the outcome of war like any other country and actually expects people to read that garbage as "information"
Even the pics there don't show anything.That guy must an IQ of 45 or so without any doubt.
By: - 2nd October 2000 at 09:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Rare pics of surrendered Indian airforce planes
LAST EDITED ON 02-Oct-00 AT 09:46 AM (GMT)[p] Sorry!Maybe I went a little too extreme but still...I expected some decent info to be gained here and all I got was that (YUCK) site!!Nevermind,I'm sure you only intended to show ONLY the pics on that site.(can't make out anything,tho)But I don't need to be an Indian to like the IAF and cuss a site like that.
Posts: 18
By: Zeeshan Nabi - 28th September 2000 at 22:25
Do you guys have other pictures for me?
from my web site:
On 24 June 1965, the PAF had had occasion to force down an IAF Ouragan fighter which was on armed reconnaissance mission near Badin. F/L Rana Lal Chand Sidda of 51 Auxillary Squadron, IAF Jamnagar, remained a prisoner until 14 Augest 1965.The aircraft is on display at PAF museum Peshawar.
http://cephalos.cwru.edu/faisal/zeeshan/pictures/fig04.jpg
On 3 sept 1965, F/L Hakimullah of PAF in F-104 forced down a Gnat flown by Squadron Leader Brij Pal Singh Sikand at Pasrur airfield. IAF pilot was dismissed from the force while still in captivity. The aircraft is on display at Peshawar museum. Picture was taken at Sargodah Base after it was flown there by a PAF pilot, S/L Hatmi.
http://cephalos.cwru.edu/faisal/zeeshan/pictures/fig03.jpg