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By: - 24th October 2010 at 22:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
USAAF PR version?
By: - 24th October 2010 at 22:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RAF, I'm fairly certain.
By: - 24th October 2010 at 22:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Germany (captured)?
By: - 24th October 2010 at 23:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am with Creaking Door has to be captured RAF type, probably late 1939, Battle of France example?
By: - 25th October 2010 at 05:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't believe any of the captured Spitfires flew over Berlin, but they did obviously fly over Germany. RAF Spitfires were doing photo recon over Germany in 1939, but not Berlin. Squadron Leader Ogilvie's photo recon mission in the middle of March 1941 took him over Berlin. Not only was that the first Spitfire over Berlin that I am aware of, I think it was the first Allied aircraft over Berlin if I recall correctly. The first unit to operate Spitfires over Berlin were Mk. IX's out of Northolt in 1943, but I don't recall the squadron. I'm going from memory here so correct me if I'm wrong.
By: - 25th October 2010 at 08:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't suppose we'll ever know, but I would be surprised if an example hadn't been flown to Templehoff for the Nazi party Air Ministry bigwigs to see.
Moggy
By: - 25th October 2010 at 09:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not sure who was first, but here is a picture from 1944.
Original caption: Berlin-Tempelhof Airfield 26th June 1944. Taken from 29,000 feet by a Spitfire PR XI of 14 Squadron, 7th Photographic Reconnaissance Group
flown by Lt Gerald M Adams USAAF.
By: - 25th October 2010 at 11:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not only was that the first Spitfire over Berlin that I am aware of, I think it was the first Allied aircraft over Berlin if I recall correctly. .
Did we not bomb Berlin August 1940 in retaliation when they bombed London?
By: - 25th October 2010 at 12:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't believe any of the captured Spitfires flew over Berlin, but they did obviously fly over Germany. RAF Spitfires were doing photo recon over Germany in 1939, but not Berlin. Squadron Leader Ogilvie's photo recon mission in the middle of March 1941 took him over Berlin. Not only was that the first Spitfire over Berlin that I am aware of, I think it was the first Allied aircraft over Berlin if I recall correctly. The first unit to operate Spitfires over Berlin were Mk. IX's out of Northolt in 1943, but I don't recall the squadron. I'm going from memory here so correct me if I'm wrong.
The first allied planes over Berlin after the breakout of the war were three or four RAF A.W. Whitley on a leaflet mission on October 1st, 1939.
And the first "hot" mission was performed by a French Farman/NC 223.4 on June 7th, 1940.
The Luftwaffe could have had Spitfire in early summer of 1940 earliest, I would say. But flying into Berlin airspace after the war broke out was severly restricted, so I guess they didn't show off their newly found Spitfire directly over Berlin, but rather a little outside. I think what everntually became "Beutezirkus Rosarius" was HQ'd at Oranienbaum (but I could be wrong).
By: - 25th October 2010 at 12:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Did we not bomb Berlin August 1940 in retaliation when they bombed London?
It was the other way around.
By: - 25th October 2010 at 14:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Trust us to get our retaliation in first.
I believe it was to push Goerings nose into something smelly.
By: - 25th October 2010 at 15:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It was the other way around.
I’d like to know more about this as it is often portrayed differently (in the British media).
By: - 25th October 2010 at 17:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
My understanding is that German bombs missed their industrial targets and fell in error on civilian areas of East London, which gave Churchill his raison d'etre to strike the German capital. At that time - mid-1940 - Hitler had no desire to bomb UK cities did he? He intended to invade and capture with as little damage as possible to industrial and civilian infrastructure.
By: - 25th October 2010 at 18:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I’d like to know more about this as it is often portrayed differently (in the British media).
..and history books...
By: - 25th October 2010 at 18:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The first allied planes over Berlin after the breakout of the war were three or four RAF A.W. Whitley on a leaflet mission on October 1st, 1939.
that rings a bell
By: - 25th October 2010 at 19:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
My understanding is that German bombs missed their industrial targets and fell in error on civilian areas of East London, which gave Churchill his raison d'etre to strike the German capital. At that time - mid-1940 - Hitler had no desire to bomb UK cities did he? He intended to invade and capture with as little damage as possible to industrial and civilian infrastructure.
Yes, that’s about how I have learned the story. Germany was bombing British military installations at the time, perhaps some missed their targets and started the mutual civilian bombing campaign. The original intent was to prepare for an invasion and bombing cities did not further this effort – military targets were of far higher value, in particular air fields.
After the Berlin raid, Hitler forced Luftwaffe to switch targets, which gave RAF a breather regarding maintaining operations on their southern air fields and thus a better ability to defend Britain.
As I read history, the switch from military targets to civilian targets, was quite important to the result of the Battle of Britain.
By: - 26th October 2010 at 11:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
G'day all
the attached images of a reproduction spitfire will provide the answer, I am told the aircraft name and markings are correct, so those of you who know about such things can tell us the details of the squadron. The other image is of the power plant installation in another Spitfire reproduction, there were 4 Spitfires in the hangar when I was there.
By: - 26th October 2010 at 15:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Did we not bomb Berlin August 1940 in retaliation when they bombed London?
26th August 1940 was the first bombing of Berlin by the RAF.
On the same day the Luftwaffe killed three civilians in NEUTRAL Ireland
By: - 26th October 2010 at 16:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The first "attack" on London was during the night 24/25 August, when several German pilots, briefed to attack Rochester, mistook the Thames for the Medway, and dropped their loads on Millwall, Islington and Tottenham. A few days earlier, others had been sent to Kenley, but hit Croydon, a strictly civilian aerodrome, and not to be attacked.
Edgar
By: - 26th October 2010 at 16:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
G'day allthe attached images of a reproduction spitfire will provide the answer, I am told the aircraft name and markings are correct, so those of you who know about such things can tell us the details of the squadron. The other image is of the power plant installation in another Spitfire reproduction, there were 4 Spitfires in the hangar when I was there.
I saw that recently on the company's homepage. Looks great....
...apart from the cannons... :rolleyes:
Posts: 549
By: Proctor VH-AHY - 24th October 2010 at 22:32
I am sorry another Spitfire posting - wash my mouth out with soap! This is an interesting question never-the-less. Which nation's Spitfire was the first Spitfire over Berlin during WW2
regards