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By: - 16th July 2001 at 04:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
I think that the cost of new build halifaxes would far out weigh the demand for say a run of 20 examples. Anyone else have any ideas.....?
By: - 16th July 2001 at 08:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
LAST EDITED ON 16-07-01 AT 08:36 AM (GMT)[p]I think also, the time factor/man power to sort out such a large project, would be huge. You only have to look how long Glynn Powell in New Zealand has been building a Mosquito, from scratch! He's built a fuselage, & that's taken quite some time. So, if you consider the size of the Halifax, you have considerable problems (it helps that the Mossie is made of wood , compared with metal, which makes it a lot easier to work with).
However, it certainly would be a great idea!!! (now where's Saturdays lottery numbers!!!).
Neilly
By: - 16th July 2001 at 15:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
Thanks for the replies so far folks.
My supposition is based on the likelyhood of the distribution of present day museum or flying Halifax's should many examples have survived the mass scrappings at the end of the war.
I have tried to work out who would have one now if many had survived.
8 flyers is most likely a bit of an over-estimation (wishful thinking on my part),but it does include the BBMF (and me if I had the money!!!!!!?????).
Because we don't have many Halifax's left (3), my hypothetical proposal is about the re-production of the Halifax for museum and warbird purposes,and who exactly would be likely to buy (or trade for) an example .
I am aware of all the huge pitfalls involved ,financially,logistically etc etc ,but could someone out there give a realistic "ball park" figure on the likely costs involved, for 1 and 20 approx examples? Assuming 20 examples were built, would the "cost per unit" be much more than a static (good condition) or flying B17 , B24, Lanc when they come up on the market?
What would also be very interesting ,would be if people could air their views on who they personally think would have aqquired a genuine (static or flying,if available) surviving Halifax ,as many have aquired (or desperately wish they had when there were still plenty around) B17s ,B24s ,Lancs etc; and who they think would want or should have an example now if they were put back into production. Maybe 20 would not actually be enough for this paticular exercise!?
I know the Halibag is not quite as famous as the Lancaster,at least to "non-commonwealth" folks anyway,but given that there are not enough Lancs to go around ,would a Halifax do instead ,especially for our American cousins anyway? I'm sure there are many US museums/operators would jump at the chance to own a British four engined WWII bomber,if the "price is right".
Thanks in advance for realistic answers,
FURY
PS;Maybe I am not being realistic myself ,but I know that where theres a will, the need ,the drawings ,engines and of course the money,then someone ,somewhere would probably do it.
PPS; I didn't realise that when you type in a happy face ,the icon would automatically appear :-)
By: - 16th July 2001 at 16:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
>I think that the cost of
>new build halifaxes would far
>out weigh the demand for
>say a run of 20
>examples. Anyone else have any
>ideas.....?
I reckon there should be the demand for 20 examples... Just think of the many variants. (9 major versions + countless other permutations).
Paul.
By: - 16th July 2001 at 16:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
Hi all,
More on the subject.....
Lets get a load of em built.... Being a Yorkshireman who lives in the heart of Halifax country (No's 4 & 6 group) I would love to see some more Halibags around if only to redress the Lancaster bias. (Don't get me wrong, the Lanc is superb as we all know it is just in the eyes of the uneducated press every bomber was a Lancaster and every B of B pilot flew a spitfire).... Lets have more Wellingtons, Stirlings Whitleys etc for that matter.
Anyway back to the real world: Sadly I believe the costs would be too great. Also there is the implications of who owns the plans and if you were planning a flyable Halifax would it be given C of A... I doubt it. Oh and where would they be kept?
If we were to get a Halifax built or any other forgotten WW2 craft then we'd have to move soon as it was over sixty years ago now and all those brave souls who flew the planes and maintained them are sadly departing and taking all their skill with them.
This discussion took place on the Halifax web forum over a year ago. Take a look at their views.
http://www.57rescue.org/wwwboard/wwwboard.html
(57rescue is the main Halifax preservation group in th U.K and have experts in their ranks who know about most things halifax).
All in all it does seem sad that we even think about rebuilding new ones when nobody thought about saving a single one of the 6,176 built in the first place.
-------------------------
Finally I have serious doubts about my lottery numbers coming-up so that I could afford one but one thought I'd had was what about films!.... Particularly as the Canadians flew Halibags, and their nearly in America and the americans are always throwing money at films that portray them winning the war single handed. For a small fee I could do the script.... :-)
Paul.
By: - 16th July 2001 at 17:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
With reference to your question about emoticons - when you go to write a message directly above the message box is Emotion Icons short cuts with all the little faces you're likely to need. Just click on link and it'll open up a help window. Then just type away!
:D
Bob
By: - 16th July 2001 at 19:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
Although the movies have provided the warbird industry with cash in the past,it is unlikely to do much more of that in the future.
As discussed in Flypast this month,the next war film needing expensive reconstructions will probably turn to the ever improving world of computer generated special effects. :(
As if this news wasn't woeful enough,I don't think that all of the Halifax's drawings do survive.As I understand it there are some gaps that still need to be filled before the blueprints could be declared complete.This could be a bit of a stumbling block to an airworthy recreation project.
It's a nice idea though! :)
By: - 17th July 2001 at 14:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
Maybe the film industry is a long shot. Pity. :-(
However the mock-up's of Hurricanes and Spitfires that were made for the Battle of Britain film do make an impressive museum centrepiece so IMHO any rebuilds don't have to be vastly expensive authentic metal rebuilds. Just a few fibreglass mock-ups would convey the sheer majesty of these aircraft if they were displayed in their correct setting.
I have to agree that computer technology is however making the real thing become less and less needed in film work, which is a real shame but I suppose better than nothing.
There is also at least one large scale flying R/C Halifax, which is pretty impressive and does convey some of the spirit of a large bomber.
Perhaps its is best to discount filming as a source of funding, just reading the "piece of cake" thread makes me realise that film makers would probably not show the aircraft and its fliers in a good light. x(
Raising private finance would be I think be impossible, as would government money. Politically it would be very difficult, in an increasingly pc world it would be hard justifying rebuilding a machine that did its best to destroy the industry of another country. It is still a sensitive subject for the older German generation. (Perhaps if they took the tack of rebuilding a Berlin airlift Halton)?
My money, however (if my lottery numbers did come-up), would not be to rebuild a Hali from scratch but I would spend it scouring the planet for any existing remains to put together what is left. I.e.: In similar fashion to NA337.
Surely over 6,000 airframes cannot just totally disappear.
For example what became of the Pakistan, & Egyptian aircraft?
Did the RAF scrap the fuselage & wings from PN323 when they took it from Handley Page in the sixties, or are the remains in the back of a warehouse somewhere? (The undercarriage still exists doesn't it)?
Regards,
Paul.
By: - 15th August 2001 at 01:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
HI Jim here again, from USA, Oh if only......Halifax, Mossie,
and particularly, STIRLINGS, now that would be a sight to behold, I volunteer for someone to pay my way, and I will personally trawl the studios for any aircraft or parts just "lying about" and not being used, its then up to someone with money to buy the bits, I heard Paul Mantz got his start by buying a couple of planes from Universal......
By: - 16th August 2001 at 00:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: New Build Halifax/s ?
hey wasn't the only flying b29 found at the end of a navy range -so any thing is possible.
rabie :9
Posts: 50
By: FURY - 15th July 2001 at 23:16
Hi folks,
This is my first time on this board,so treat me gently won't you please :-)))
This is strictly a hypothetical question.(if only it could be true though!)
When the Yorkshire Air Museum at Elvington built their Halifax,I am aware that some sections had to be built from new,the rear fuselage and nose especially.
I understand ,from what I was told,that the drawings do exist for the Halifax,this obviously enabling them (including BAe) to build the required sections.
If someone wanted to ,and was rich enough of course,would it be possible to build a complete brand new Halifax,every bit of it,structure at least ,whether static or flying?
Engine availability ,Merlin or Hercules ,would maybe be a problem ,but if that "little" problem could be overcome...........
I presume that the "cost per unit" would reduce if more than one example was required,up to 20 approx ,about 8 of them flyers.
What is likely to be the reaction of the CAA to this kind of proposal?
Thanks in advance for sensible answers,
FURY.
PS- I don't want this to turn into another real V replica debate please,that is not part of the question.
PPs- Could someone PLEASE tell me how to use the emotion icons?