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By: - 14th April 2009 at 19:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What, and open yourself up to a lawsuit if the drawing/tech info you share contains errors and contributes to or causes property damage/injury/death?
By: - 14th April 2009 at 20:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What, and open yourself up to a lawsuit if the drawing/tech info you share contains errors and contributes to or causes property damage/injury/death?
I have heard the threat of liability many times, but has anyone heard of a case where a warbird restorer has sued the provider of historic technical information due to errors contained within it?
Really no information (even factory drawings) are to be used unless the information is current and provided to you by the manufacturer, and should not be used (in the case where the manufacturer no longer exists) unless it has been review by a DAR. Unless stipulated, drawings are always for reference use only. Any misuse would be the responsibility of the user, not the provider.
By: - 14th April 2009 at 23:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It does seem strange that drawings for some types are relatively easy to obtain, yet others especially the Hawker types are much more difficult.
Wish I had an interest in the Mustang, that would be so much easier.
By: - 15th April 2009 at 01:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It does seem strange that drawings for some types are relatively easy to obtain, yet others especially the Hawker types are much more difficult.Wish I had an interest in the Mustang, that would be so much easier.
I think that the myth of liability is a huge deterrent to people that may otherwise share the information.
Any Lawyers out there that can prove liability for something like this?
By: - 15th April 2009 at 05:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Drawings
Can I sue all lawyers for the angst they have caused me?
I have spent almost an equal amount of time researching as to building. Hendon is very helpful, but extremly slow. Some others never return emails, and some of the drawings that I have loaned over the years have not returned. I wish there was a repository for information. Peter Jackson has the right idea, but wrong era for me.
I have spent a costly sum accumulating my drawings, I don't mind sharing, I only ask for a nice single malt once in a while.
Hopefully your thread will start a library.
Ed
By: - 15th April 2009 at 07:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As I understand it, the whole litigation thing came about as the result of a private individual in the USA building a Sopwith Camel (or similar) to drawings provided by BAe/Hawker Siddeley/Whatever they were at the time. The aircraft crashed on its first flight, and the wife of the builder successfully sued the company for issuing drawings which could lead to the death of the builder.
The Hurricane drawings do largely survive; they were with RAFM briefly, before being taken back by BAe for the reasons described above. They are however laregly detailed parts drawings as opposed to the GA's we find surviving in the case of the Spitfire.
Bruce
By: - 15th April 2009 at 11:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
but if everyone was interested in sharing what they have, it seems like it would be a lot more realistic to see a Typhoon flying at an air show within the next decade or so.
Drawing availability for the Tiffie is the least of your problems compared to obtaining/rebuilding a certified working Napier Sabre for that to ever be achieved :eek:
By: - 15th April 2009 at 12:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Spitfire MK IX Plans
Good afternoon folks.
On the plan front and not being overly technically minded myself, where would one go to find detailed drawings of a Spitfire MK IX, to enable someone who is technically minded to build a replica cockpit section?
There are so many different sites that appear when I do an internet search, that I don’t really know where to go?
Also can anyone please recommend any good books that cover the MK IX, including the cockpit?
Once again any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Many Thanks,
James.
On a personal note I have always avoided forums in the past, but have been overwhelmed by the positive support and advice that people have so kindly offered to me, over the previous few months.
Normally I have found that the people who have the wealth of knowledge and experience, are usually the least likely to want to share it. I am glad to say that this forum continues to prove me wrong on that front. Long may it continue!
By: - 15th April 2009 at 12:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It always amuses me the general negative reaction to many of the rebuilds, new manufacture or general research into rare types of aircraft. My interest lies in Typhoons aswell, which may or may not be known :), and whenever any queries come up the Sabre always jumps to the top of the pile as to why a second complete Typhoon will never happen. Perhaps it is the optimist in me but there a number of very good engines in existence to complete the job...however with no structure in front of you it would be very hard to convince anyone to part with their engine. However, if you had the structure of a Typhoon sat there waiting for an engine they would be more willing to listen to you. Will it ever happen? I hope so (and I still plan on it 12 years after being hooked) but without drawings or a substantial recovery it would be very hard. We all have to start somewhere...drawings are a necessity and in particular main cockpit spar drawings :)
Now if anyone happens to have a set of drawings or lots of Typhoon bits hidden in their shed I would love to hear from them :)
By: - 15th April 2009 at 13:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
i had heard somewhere that the cost of just stripping down a sabre, would be the same as a complete airworthy rebuild for a merlin engine..........:eek:
By: - 15th April 2009 at 14:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
depends on who or where you approach. It is essentially the same as all industries, if you don't really want to do it then quote a high price...if the customer then says go ahead then you can't really lose (well 9 times out of 10) :)
By: - 15th April 2009 at 16:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very interesting to hear the reason that BAE has stopped providing technical information, I hadn't herd that story before.
I'm hoping more to promote individuals and groups that are not the OEM to share information. As was stated above the OEM was sued due to what must have been a design fault within the technical information provided for a build project. I can hardly imagine that a third party provider of copies could be sued for engineering faults in the manufacturers design. What I would like to see more of is the guy that has four or five drawings willing to share with the guy with a missing link rebuilding a piece of aviation history. I'm quite sure that there are huge volumes of information out there that could help get these aircraft back into the air.
By: - 15th April 2009 at 16:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That the aircraft crashed may have had nothing to do with the drawings, and everything to do with the builder. However once there is an opportunity for litigation, it will come - and does....
Bruce
By: - 15th April 2009 at 16:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
[QUOTE=Bruce;1393488]
The Hurricane drawings do largely survive; they were with RAFM briefly, before being taken back by BAe for the reasons described above.
I would love to hear from anyone that are interested in trading Hurricane drawings, it has been my experience that they are hard to come by as well, (though not so hard as the Tiffie).
By: - 15th April 2009 at 16:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That the aircraft crashed may have had nothing to do with the drawings, and everything to do with the builder. However once there is an opportunity for litigation, it will come - and does....Bruce
It's too bad that something like that was able to have such a profound effect on preservation!
By: - 15th April 2009 at 17:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Both Dowty-Rotol and Dunlop who in previous or early warbird years were more than willing to supply detail, sub assembly and general arrnagement drawings of their products, terminated the service a good few years back.
The reasons were for potential product liabilty litigation reasons.
Mark
By: - 15th April 2009 at 20:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's a shame that in the interest in preserving history, these companies don't simply have a waiver signed upon release of technical data. It would be simple and effective, you want it, you're liable.
Posts: 206
By: Alloy - 14th April 2009 at 19:02
Hello everyone,
I've noticed that,(probably due to the rarity and value), Technical drawings for British built wartime aircraft are very sacred to the people who posses them.
I have come across several people who have been very willing to trade information, or simply provide it at no or little cost, but that philosophy is not very wide spread.
From the information that I've gathered from reading what many people have to say in the historic aviation forum, it seems that we are, (for the most part), somehow involved in aircraft restoration, preservation, or research.
I would think it would be in the interest of the masses, to share this coveted information and let restorations progress faster, and in many cases at less cost, enabling money to be spent on more sensible items.
As a Hawker fighter aficionado, this problem has and is currently plaguing me and many others.
There would always be some cost of trading drawings due to the copying or digitizing of them, but if everyone was interested in sharing what they have, it seems like it would be a lot more realistic to see a Typhoon flying at an air show within the next decade or so. Not trying to say that we are all being selfish, just hoping to unclog the movement of information.
Wouldn't it be better to have more wartime aircraft?
I would value thoughts of the people in the forum on this.