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By: - 11th January 2006 at 05:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/ASM/Mag/Index/1995/JJ/motl.html
By: - 11th January 2006 at 07:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There's a MiG-29 variant that has High Lark or Blue Jay radar?
I was always under the impression that Luftwaffe MiG-29's were used in conjunction with the F-4F ICE's, and the F-4 with its much better radar and more capable AMRAAM missiles was the long-range punch while the MiG-29's would close in and use their better dogfighting capabilities along with the HMS/AA-11 combo to get anything that's left over.
From what I heard, the F-4F/MiG-29G combo was quite the good one.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 08:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very good article. I figured the East German MiGs were stripped down versions. It looks to me that with the latest avionics and a well trained pilot and a longer range the MiG29 would be a formidible aircraft. It needs better non smoking engines. Some air show video I have seen show later versions of the MiG29 whose engines still give off smoke trails from time to time.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 08:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There's a MiG-29 variant that has High Lark or Blue Jay radar?
No there's not. They had downgraded radars and other electronic changes, but they all carried at least the R-27R and the R-60.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 08:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The differences in electronics were nowhere near as great as he implies. However it suits his world view to believe that Russian MiG-29s were some kind of special thing.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 09:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No there's not. They had downgraded radars and other electronic changes, but they all carried at least the R-27R and the R-60.
But wasn't that the standard loadout for WP Mig29's. I remember seeing that in the manuals for Mig-29. Not a single word on R-73.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 09:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some WP nations, like Yugoslavia and East Germany, did receive the R-73 (Maybe they all did? I'd have to do a thorough check to figure that one out). I've got the same flight manual reprint, maybe it's an early version? Remember, the first R-73s went to FLANKER units in the USSR; since they took a short while to get to Soviet FULCRUM units, it's likely they weren't exported right off either.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 10:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some WP nations, like Yugoslavia and East Germany, did receive the R-73 (Maybe they all did? I'd have to do a thorough check to figure that one out). I've got the same flight manual reprint, maybe it's an early version? Remember, the first R-73s went to FLANKER units in the USSR; since they took a short while to get to Soviet FULCRUM units, it's likely they weren't exported right off either.
Czechoslovakia definitely had R-73s.. I have positively recognized R-73 on Bulgarian and Hungarian aircraft, as well.. Looks like R-73 was not export restricted..
By: - 11th January 2006 at 10:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Desert Storm and Yugoslavia didn't really show the MiG-29 in a good light. However when Germany reunited (When are they going on tour? I want tickets! :D ) They kept the East German MiG-29's in service for several years. I even think they went to Red Flag a few times. So the question is how did they perform against other NATO aircraft?
Typically as all MiG-29s.. Pretty crappy situational awareness, reasonable BVR performance (the radar was good at tracking one target) and an ruthless angel to fight on dogfight. German jocks I have spoken with were pretty excited about the aircraft, compared to lousy Rhinos and Tonkas it was very sexi to fly with and Schmel down all opponents within 15km range.
Note - Schmel goes for combined R-73/HMS kill
By: - 11th January 2006 at 11:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The GAF MiG-29s were not downgraded ones, when it came to the radar and flight performances. They used R-27R1, R-73A and R-60MK MOD.
They did not field the full EW-complex 'cave'. They had no wiring for an atomic weapon. They did not receive a later available upgrade to handle multiple targets or more internal fuel. The other way, they had the best thrust to weight ratio, when not in peace-time mod.
The 24 MiG-29s were kept to get experiences with a high agility fighter similar to the EF. They were mainly used for dissimilar training. The lessons learned from that are, the MiG-29 is a very dangerous opponent in a "knife-fight in the telefon-box". (Similar to a 'Zero' in WWII) Keep speed high and deny any infights is the best way to overcome the MiG-29 threat.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 11:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dangerous in a close range knife fight. Sounds like it gave the F-16 a run for its money.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 11:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The GAF MiG-29s were not downgraded ones, when it came to the radar and flight performances. They used R-27R1, R-73A and R-60MK MOD.
They did not field the full EW-complex 'cave'. They had no wiring for an atomic weapon. They did not receive a later available upgrade to handle multiple targets or more internal fuel. The other way, they had the best thrust to weight ratio, when not in peace-time mod.
The 24 MiG-29s were kept to get experiences with a high agility fighter similar to the EF. They were mainly used for dissimilar training. The lessons learned from that are, the MiG-29 is a very dangerous opponent in a "knife-fight in the telefon-box". (Similar to a 'Zero' in WWII) Keep speed high and deny any infights is the best way to overcome the MiG-29 threat.
I was also surprised to learn about good tracking characteristics of the N019EA. The thing is supposedly rather poor in searching mode and lacks computing power to handle multiple threats but its lock is steady and rather tough to get rid off (has probably something to do with Cassegrain type antenna).
By: - 11th January 2006 at 11:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dangerous in a close range knife fight. Sounds like it gave the F-16 a run for its money.
Fulcrum pilots generally don't consider F-16 as a real threat in close scenario.. Our pilots found F-16As from Benelux as much better suited for dogfights than regular F-16Cs. As far more dangerous knife fighters were evaluated Mirage 2000Cs. The ratio on first approach was almost 1:1.. Second approach did not look that good anymore, Mirages lose energy rather quickly..
By: - 11th January 2006 at 11:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It makes sense that the radar lacked multi-track because the Russians would have superior numbers and since close range combat is its forte multi-tracking is really for long/medium range engagements.
By: - 11th January 2006 at 11:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lack of multi target engagement capability is only important when you are outnumbered. Identifying priority targets and tracking multiple targets was the job of the GCI officers. It is a bit like a tank crew. The GCI officers are the tank commanders, finding targets and handing off targets to the gunners. In this case the gunners are both SAM sites and interceptors who are allocated a target and given enough information to engage that target while the tank commander looks for more targets and monitors the situation. In such a case SA for the pilots is less important than SA for the GCI personel.Like it or loath it it was their system and it would not make sense to fit aircraft with track while scan radars in such a set up.
I know.. Finally, multi-target engagements was not the role of MiG-29 within the Russian PVO system. That was a job for Su-30 and MiG-31. Su-27 was assuring air superiority and MiG-29s were the last line of defense against the enemies who somehow made it thru and were located close to big industrial complexes, cities, dams, power plants or other strategic targets. That is why there was little endurance, little range, no simultaneous tracking resulting in little independancy. Within other airforces the MiG-29 has been simply taken out of the whole concept and logically lacked the necessary flexibility.
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By: suflanker45 - 11th January 2006 at 04:06
Desert Storm and Yugoslavia didn't really show the MiG-29 in a good light. However when Germany reunited (When are they going on tour? I want tickets! :D ) They kept the East German MiG-29's in service for several years. I even think they went to Red Flag a few times. So the question is how did they perform against other NATO aircraft?