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By: - 6th April 2006 at 12:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well, if what they say about long wavelength radar is true...
You could saturate the flightpath with fighters and hopefully get close enough to get an airborne radar return and shoot it down...
But where would the F-22s be at this time? Again, if the low frequency radar does what many suspect/say, then you could time your saturation to avoid the F-22s...
As for the B-1s, well, they should be within the capabilities of SAMs... if they haven't been HARM'd by then (but I've heard the HARM missile was a disaster in the balkans???)
The answer would really depend greatly on what you have at your disposal to be honest... if they had a few S-300s... well, changes things somewhat doesn't it.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 12:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Take it down by throwing a stone.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 12:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Remember, you know they will be coming.
And they know, that you know ...
So they won't behave predictable. They know their limitations because they have tested it over and over again against every wave length in every scenario. They will not give you the opportunity to have a propaganda victory, they will rather lure you in a trap and spank you with cheap F-16 and cruise missiles while you direct all your resources in killing one aircraft.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 12:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Take it down by throwing a stone.
Which translates to "undirected anti-aircraft artillery" in modern terms.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 12:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well I would play the game the american way:
Get some AWACS from Russia and as many Su-30 as possible with all the Long BVR missiles of mother Russia. Then I would keep them AWACS flying and have them Su-30s shooting at whatever comes its way. I bet you the US would not send any B2 unless all these air assets where destroyed first. So I would try to keep the attrition working for me......Also, I would have my submarine fleet on a do or die mission to sink a flattop and some cruise firing cruisers....keep the numbers high and the US would start looking for excuses to but out of Dodge...
By: - 6th April 2006 at 12:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hey those are Palestinians throwing stones at Merkava's,not Iranians hehe.
Anyways one must know that Irans Air Defence network will first be "saturated" with a load of precise cruise missiles. This would take out most if not all of the fixed Air Defence installations/radars/missiles etc. Sucessfully engaging these aircraft would therefore be the job of mobile units that would have to switch on their radar long enough to acquire something on their screens and not get a HARM or ALARM trhough their truck window. The question is if these radars are able to acquire something stealthy at all?
The best way to shoot down any of these airplanes is to get a spy in the NATO/US headquarters and find out the flight paths ,as we did with F-117 in '99. Everything else was pure luck.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 12:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well I would play the game the american way:Get some AWACS from Russia and as many Su-30 as possible with all the Long BVR missiles of mother Russia. Then I would keep them AWACS flying and have them Su-30s shooting at whatever comes its way. I bet you the US would not send any B2 unless all these air assets where destroyed first. So I would try to keep the attrition working for me......Also, I would have my submarine fleet on a do or die mission to sink a flattop and some cruise firing cruisers....keep the numbers high and the US would start looking for excuses to but out of Dodge...
You need three AWACS to have full coverage (6 to 8h shift). Additionally at least 24 Flankers (2 to 3h shift with 4 to 6 ship flight (2 or 3 CAP-flights)). To defend against a pretty conventional attack of BVR-fighters from one carrier (20 F-18Es) this is not sufficient.
They launch frontal attack on your line of Flankers. Not really engaging, but keeping them in a state of directed readiness. Then B-2 sneaks in and bombs your airport with JDAM, coming from an unexpected direction.
Did you notice that one B-2 is 600 Million USD, while having all thise defence assets, keeping them alert and trained is much more expensive. Who will then question the spending on this aircraft?
By: - 6th April 2006 at 13:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A B-2 is much more than $600 mil US is it not?
I thought it was approaching $ 2 billion US ???
By: - 6th April 2006 at 13:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lets be realistic here guys! We do not know the first thing about shooting down an aircraft such as the B2 or B1! We can come up with these funny idea's and mention all the equipment available, that we know of, to shoot them down, but don't you think the Armed forces would be a little disturbed if they knew that a group of forum members could conjour up an idea to do it! We would all need to be professional weapons experts to do that and I don't think that that is very realistic here, do you? :confused:
By: - 6th April 2006 at 13:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Want to bring down a stealth aircraft? Don't want to have to rely on luck? Develop a satellite-targeted SAM. Unless a stealth aircraft can be made literally invisible, you're in business, as from directly above you're going to get a decent radar return. Or a nice visual feed. Then target your SAMs.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 13:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A B-2 is much more than $600 mil US is it not?I thought it was approaching $ 2 billion US ???
600 mil USD = Aircraft
2bn USD = System price incl. spares, support, development and training.
The cost of rebuilding would be 600 mil USD (with an extra fee due to restart of production).
By: - 6th April 2006 at 13:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ahh right, fair enough. :)
By: - 6th April 2006 at 14:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The best way to shoot down any of these airplanes is to get a spy in the NATO/US headquarters and find out the flight paths ,as we did with F-117 in '99. Everything else was pure luck.
Especially give them a feeling of safety in their aircraft.
Ah, the best way to prevent any effective American attack: jam the g**damn GPS! Mr. GI won't find his shorts without it!
By: - 6th April 2006 at 14:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jam the GPS all you want. We can still use TERCOM-guided cruise missiles and LGBs dropped from aircraft with INS nav systems.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 14:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do it like the NVA did. Stage a mortar attack on the airbase. During the confusion of the attack, sappers sneak through the wire and destroy the airplanes with satchel charges.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 15:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yep have to say thats the best plan of all but trying to take out whiteman (that is there base isnt it) AFB isnt gonna be to easy i dont think. I'd imagine these scenarios are already taken into account and the like of Whiteman AFB would not let a bunch of Iranian commandos to simply waltz (maybe a salsa) in and wreck the place. Be gutted though wouldnt they lol - billions of dollers worth screwed up and mashed by a few hunderd bucks worth of morter fire :diablo: .Sabataging the fuel dump at thier air base would be a blow too but thats probably even tougher then trying to morter the base. I really don't see many other ways they could presently take a B-2 off the USAF inventory. S-300 seems nothing but talk and i really don't think would be enough, hell as soon as the much vaunted S-300 starts vollying missles around and switching on its radar it just becomes a matter of time before its either soft killed or worse for the Iranians hard killed. It would be extemely foolish and frankly daft to think counter measures for the S-300 hadn't been developed and tested. Only a fool would would believe the S-300 is some sort of unbeatable waepon- not that anyone here said that mind it just seems to be the favourite view of alot of die-hard Russian gear fans. Now what about extremely high flying areostat ballons that have IR systems and a datalink on them, say up at 60000 feet and ,no forget that thats unworkable unless you have literally thousands of them. I don't know but i get the feeling B-2's could roam all over Iranian airspace with very little fear for air defenses. Also B-2 was rumored to have active cancellation systems wasn't it? I'm no tech head but even if you do aquire a B-2 you then have to track the damn thing and thats the nearly impossible bit. Getting a firing solution on it ain't gonna be a cake walk for anyone. Cap patrols by groups of Su 30's or 27's isnt really gonna help either is it? I mean wouldnt you just take the flankers out with fighter jets anyway and unless they were taking off from and Airfield under a mountin then i think thier airbase and weapons supply and fuel supply tanks are all gonna be totally flattened before the first hour of the wars gone by. If they wre lucky enough to get airborne before hand then good on em but it isnt gonna help when you a potentially 500+ sorties each day flying just about any where they want to in Iranian airspace.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 15:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The key point was, “they know the attack is coming”. Also, must keep in mind that the B-2s can
fly all over the country and look at the historical sites if they wish. The only thing the Iranians
want to protect is their Nuclear Power Plants and Military installations.
Essentially, not a lot of airspace needs to be covered, by whatever means. Only those areas of
interest.
With this in mind, what would you do to counter the B-2s ? Wouldn’t a Mig-31 with the same
ceiling as the B-2 be handy?
By: - 6th April 2006 at 15:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If I realy was Iran and my only interest was self-defence, I would invest all I could in S-400, S-300VM, Pantsir, Mig-31BM, and the most advanced Su-30 derivative I could get my hands on. Combined with long range anti-ship missiles, GLCM's, and ballistic missiles (conventional warheads) to launch strikes against US ships and bases in theatre. At the same time subtly keeping the Iraqi insurgency going to keep US ground forces occupied.
Of course If I was the US I would then just enforce an embargo until Iran ran out of spares and money then wander in in twenty years time when the economy is in ruins.
The moral of the story is dont mess with the biggest monkey in the jungle.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 15:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yeah i think mig 31's would be a very good aircraft to try and bring a B-2 down. but the chances of having the Mig CAP actually run into a B-2 would be slim i'd imagine for the reason that as soon as the migs are up there ELINT or something else like an Awacs will know about - that info then datalinked staright to the B-2 which then simply slinks on past them on a differant route. Maybe just pull all your assets around Tehran and try to turn it into some kind of fortress but we all saw how well that didnt work for Saddam so maybe not.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 15:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do it like the NVA did. Stage a mortar attack on the airbase. During the confusion of the attack, sappers sneak through the wire and destroy the airplanes with satchel charges.
How do you transfer the mortars to homeland USA, the place B-2s will stationed?
Posts: 153
By: SSS-666 - 6th April 2006 at 11:49
If you were in charge of the military in..... lets say..............Iran, how would you counter an aerial
attack by B-2s, B-1s, F-117s, F-22s and Cruise Missiles fired from Ships and Subs in the Persian
Gulf and the adjoining Sea?
You know they will be coming, but can you stop them, or at the least shot down as many as you
can, before they achieve their mission?
How would you overcome the stealthiness of the Aircraft, and the Bomber’s high altitude?
Remember, you know they will be coming.