Read the forum code of contact
Posts: 1,067
By: - 8th February 2011 at 22:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What would modern maritime historians have thought if HMS Victory had been chopped up for firewood after the Battle of Trafalgar?
By: - 8th February 2011 at 23:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What would modern maritime historians have thought if HMS Victory had been chopped up for firewood after the Battle of Trafalgar?
To be fair she was to be and the Admiral who gave the order was made to recind it by his wife!!
Unfortunately the Falklands is not Trafalgar and HMS Invincible is not HMS Victory, but like all historic ships unlike aircraft they are massively expensive to keep up and no one at the moment can afford to do it.
curlyboy
By: - 8th February 2011 at 23:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What would modern maritime historians have thought if HMS Victory had been chopped up for firewood after the Battle of Trafalgar?
Someone might have painted it...
http://www.j-m-w-turner.co.uk/turner-temeraire.htm
(Admiral Harvey's broadside from the Temeraire was what ensured Victory wasn't boarded by the dastardly Frenchies)
Adrian
By: - 9th February 2011 at 00:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi
Sad end to a fine ship, but probably better than having her rotting away somewhere.
Pity she wasn't being scrapped in the UK then some parts may have been saved for display.
cheers
Jerry
By: - 9th February 2011 at 00:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
...if HMS Victory had been chopped up for firewood after the Battle of Trafalgar?
Strangely enough a French man-o-war, that was possibly taken as a prize at Trafalgar, was preserved alongside HMS Victory at Portsmouth long enough to be damaged by Luftwaffe bombs. When she fell into disrepair in about 1949 I believe she was offered to the French, who declined, so she was towed into the channel and scuttled!
I imagine the French have regretted that ever since.....I wish I could remember her name.
Edit: She was HMS Implacable (formerly the French Duguay-Trouin).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Implacable_(1805)
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=27323
Although I’ve remembered most of the facts wrongly the outcome is no less sad and ironic that a later HMS Implacable was another war-veteran aircraft carrier that went to the breakers in 1955.
By: - 9th February 2011 at 01:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Most of the carriers used for years in the Vietnam campaign are going to the breakers now...or becoming artificial reefs.
By: - 9th February 2011 at 02:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
At least the USS Intrepid is already preserved in New York and there are a least five battleships also preserved in the US whereas there will never be a Royal Navy battleship preserved now. Britain has now only one (remote) chance to preserve a Falklands War carrier.
By: - 9th February 2011 at 04:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pathe newsreel of the Implacable's demise. Painful:
By: - 9th February 2011 at 05:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
At least the USS Intrepid is already preserved in New York and there are a least five battleships also preserved in the US whereas there will never be a Royal Navy battleship preserved now. Britain has now only one (remote) chance to preserve a Falklands War carrier.
USS Texas BB-35 (1914); at San Jacinto State Park, Houston, Texas, 20 April 1948.
USS North Carolina BB-55; in Wilmington, North Carolina, 29 April 1962.
USS Alabama BB-60; at Battleship Memorial Park, Mobile, Alabama, 9 January 1965.
USS Massachusetts BB-59; at Battleship Cove, Fall River, Massachusetts, 14 August 1965.
USS Missouri BB-63; at Ford Island, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, 29 January 1999.
USS New Jersey BB-62; in Camden, New Jersey, October 2000.
USS Wisconsin BB-64; in Norfolk, Virginia, 16 April 2001.
USS Iowa BB-61; held in Suisun Bay, Concord, California, phase I application submitted 21 November 2010 for museum at Pier 87, San Pedro, Los Angeles, California.
USS Yorktown CV-10; at Patriot's Point, Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, 13 October 1975.
USS Intrepid CV-11; in New York harbor, New York, New York, August 1982.
USS Lexington CV-16; in Corpus Christi, Texas, 15 June 1992.
USS Hornet CV-12; at former Naval Air Station Alameda, Alameda, California, 17 October 1998.
USS Midway CVB-41; in San Diego, California, 7 June 2004.
USS Ranger CV-61; to be museum in Fairview, Oregon (phase II application submitted 3 Sept. 2010 and approved, work on phase III [final] application underway).
By: - 9th February 2011 at 06:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pathe newsreel of the Implacable's demise. Painful:
... what the hell did they do that for?
By: - 9th February 2011 at 07:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pity. With better timing, funding and planning Britain should've had a carrier-museum by now. This is only the latest missed opportunity.
... what the hell did they do that for?
Rationing, austerity and no cash. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
It's tragic that Britain, once the foremost maritime nation on earth, has no surviving battleships, or dreadnoughts, no preserved carriers (of any kind) and also there's not a single airworthy British marine aircraft of any kind anywhere in the world.
Unless you count the strange Chinese 'theme parks' (or whatever they are) IIRC, it's notable that only the US has preserved carriers, while there's more preserved US battleships than the rest of the world put together, ironic considering the US' battleships were never as politically vital as many other nations (Britain, Germany, Japan, etc.).
It's important to remember all preservation is partial, flawed and biased by accident and opportunity, and isn't a good guide the hierachies of the past.
By: - 9th February 2011 at 08:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
there's not a single airworthy British marine aircraft of any kind anywhere in the world.
Two airworthy Seafires, Swordfish, Seahawk, Sea Furies ... or am I missing the point?
By: - 9th February 2011 at 09:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Two airworthy Seafires, Swordfish, Seahawk, Sea Furies ... or am I missing the point?
Yes. Flying boats, floatplanes or amphibians. You are thinking of maritime, not marine, but the terms can be argued, as can 'seaplane'.
By: - 9th February 2011 at 09:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes. Flying boats, floatplanes or amphibians. You are thinking of maritime, not marine, but the terms can be argued, as can 'seaplane'.
Yes I did consider that but thought that as the thread was about an aircraft carrier ...
By: - 9th February 2011 at 10:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pathe newsreel of the Implacable's demise. Painful:
That was surely vandalism,i can't believe it ,how sad:(
By: - 9th February 2011 at 10:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
USS Texas BB-35...
Thanks for that list although it does rather put Britain to shame! :o
It's tragic that Britain, once the foremost maritime nation on earth, has no surviving battleships, or dreadnoughts...
...or any monitors.....unless we can have the Cerberus back. ;)
Nor any escort vessel from the Battle-of-the-Atlantic, a battle probably more important that the Battle-of-Britain.
It’s not all bad news though; HMS Victory, HMS Warrior, HMS Belfast, HMS Caroline, HMS Cavalier, HMS Plymouth (Falklands veteran, future uncertain), HMS Gannet, SS Great Britain, Cutty Sark and there is still a chance to save HMS Conqueror, a Falklands veteran, and the first and so far only nuclear submarine to have ever torpedoed anything (some controversy to overcome there I think :rolleyes:).
We mustn’t forget HMS Whimbrel either, although attempts to return her from Egypt seem to have stalled.....I wonder if events in Egypt will change that now?
We still need an aircraft-carrier.....after all Britain practically invented the damn things! :D
By: - 9th February 2011 at 11:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes. Flying boats, floatplanes or amphibians. You are thinking of maritime, not marine, but the terms can be argued, as can 'seaplane'.
There are preserved British seaplanes ... Stranrar, Southampton, Sunderland.
By: - 9th February 2011 at 11:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nor any escort vessel from the Battle-of-the-Atlantic, a battle probably more important that the Battle-of-Britain.
Thankfully Canada has HMCS Sackville in Halifax harbour, the last Flower Class corvette.
There are preserved British seaplanes ... Stranrar, Southampton, Sunderland.
I'm well aware of them - I did write a book about one (Stranraer, to be correct) and half a 'Database' about another. I said airworthy. ;)
Regards,
By: - 9th February 2011 at 12:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the Chinese offered £5million for Invincible with a view to preserving it . This was turned down and she was sold to Turkey for £2 million!!!
Jim
Posts: 9,739
By: Creaking Door - 8th February 2011 at 19:55
Falkland's War veteran HMS Invincible is to follow other ships of the 1982 Task Force to a scrapping in Turkey:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12396523