By: Sutts
- 22nd April 2012 at 20:08Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi
Awot is me :-) My nickname does not mean A Waste Of Time. Is the name of my motorcycle AWO-425T http://www.film-autos.com/fundus/fahrzeug/index.php?fz_id=259
In a few days I get a few other pictures of the P-40. This is not a model. It's a real plane! Believe !!!
Raphael
Really glad to see you on the forum Raphael. You really have caused quite a stir:D
I think most of us here are hoping to see this incredible find protected from the scrappers and vandals. Are you in any position to comment on the likely outcome please? Is the airframe in safe hands or have things got a little out of control since the find was reported to the authorities?
Would be great to hear you and your friend's view of the situation.
By: Dobbins
- 22nd April 2012 at 20:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Really glad to see you on the forum Raphael. You really have caused quite a stir:D
I think most of us here are hoping to see this incredible find protected from the scrappers and vandals. Are you in any position to comment on the likely outcome please? Is the airframe in safe hands or have things got a little out of control since the find was reported to the authorities?
Would be great to hear you and your friend's view of the situation.
Thanks.
How about trying to contact Wasalpan23, who uploaded the youtube footage?
By: Skyraider3D
- 22nd April 2012 at 20:28Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just the other day I was thinking how many of these will still be out there in the desert. Probably a good few but finding them is another story. Then seeing one was found and now being torn apart (indeed the gunsight ring is intact in video 1, torn off in video 2) is heartbreaking. Fantastic discovery but a very painful and frustrating couple of videos... :( If only they'd realise the value of it...
By: DCK
- 22nd April 2012 at 20:58Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well, actually, looking again at the first three photos, I have to say that they still look like a model P-40 in a diorama.
Obviously, the subsequent video evidence is compelling truth that they were genuine.
More importantly, I hope that the pilot had a happy outcome.
I can also tell by looking at the gentlemen in the videos that this precious 70 year old time capsule is in safe hands.
Not.
DD
I still can't possibly see what you find which is so modellish or CGI'ish. I've looked at fakeish/modellish stuff on the net for 15 years and I could easily pick this out to be real. I was never in doubt.
But to be all negative, I agree on the last part. Horrible.
By: Discendo Duces
- 22nd April 2012 at 21:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
:)
I still can't possibly see what you find which is so modellish or CGI'ish. I've looked at fakeish/modellish stuff on the net for 15 years and I could easily pick this out to be real. I was never in doubt.
But to be all negative, I agree on the last part. Horrible.
By: Jayce
- 22nd April 2012 at 21:22Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I hope to god the El Alamein museum has been made aware of it and is doing something. I get a sickening feeling it'll soon on its way to becoming razorblades if they don't move quickly... if it hasn't already. :(
By: shepsair
- 22nd April 2012 at 22:06Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
P40
I think it should be a case of swapsys.
Royal Air Force Museum donate there P40N to El Alamein Museum and some money (lottery or whatever), Egypt pay the finder a handsome finders fee and the complete time capsule RAF Kittyhawk goes to RAF Museum to sit next to Bf109G-2 Black 6.
By: Dobbins
- 22nd April 2012 at 22:11Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think it should be a case of swapsys.
Royal Air Force Museum donate there P40N to El Alamein Museum and some money (lottery or whatever), Egypt pay the finder a handsome finders fee and the complete time capsule RAF Kittyhawk goes to RAF Museum to sit next to Bf109G-2 Black 6.
By: ozjag
- 22nd April 2012 at 23:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well have gone out on a limb way back on Page 1 to say it was real I am very glad it has been confirmed although it is very saddening to see how it is being treated, people walking all over it, yanking at parts, carrying bits off.
On the positive side hopefully the internet attention it has received on all of the forums has enabled the right people to see it and for it to become recovered quicker, the longer it stays out there now that it is known about the less of it will remain.
By: mark_pilkington
- 22nd April 2012 at 23:46Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Quick everyone, back over to the "20 Spitfires In Burma" thread, it's in danger of being overtaken by this one. This is the Flypast Forum, we can't let that happen! :D
No I'm sorry but I've been spoilt now in terms of the quality of evidence I require to follow treasure hunt threads, I now require 5 blurry stills and at least two you-tube videos.
Besides, having been convinced how well modellers can recreate such things to fool unsuspecting warbird enthusiasts, I am becoming quite suspicious that the Burma scans are actually detecting small metal model spitfires previously buried on site in match boxes at a depth of 40' by those nasty modellers simply to fool us again!
And of course if they are real they are only 20 late model spits with apparantly no combat service, you would wonder if they are worth the effort at all? (surely we have enough Spits already?)
(I'm still not sure the P-40 is real, I still suspect its done with stop motion animation and 1/72 scale figurines :) )
By: Sutts
- 23rd April 2012 at 08:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some thoughts on the 2 videos......
The big guy at the end of vid 2 is the rich guy, the boss. My guess is he is associated with the oil drilling operation. From the look of him I think his interest extends to more than a few ebay sales.
The guy with the hood and his arm around the big guy is possibly AWOT's friend, the oil explorer who made the discovery and reported the find to someone - possibly the big guy.
Most of the guys in the 1st vid are wearing the same trousers with a stripe - employees of the big guy and have been tasked to move the aircraft.
The recovery is officially sanctioned - based on the army removing the ammo.
The guy on the wing at the end of the 2nd vid is removing a wing root access panel - this isn't souveniring behaviour - it suggests to me that they are trying to remove the wings the proper way.
The gunsight removal may be souveniring or could be an attempt to remove items that may be damaged in the recovery / lifting operation. In almost all recoveries from far off places things go missing - the 110s/Stuka/Fw190 from Russia all suffered in some way so a few pieces may well go astray.
The deep slash in front of the windscreen is new and quite worrying - why do such a thing and what tool would make such a mark with outward facing tears?
They have already made an attempt to remove the rudder (top hinge disconnected) and possibly the left elevator (access panel open).
From all this I think we have a guy in charge who knows the value of what he has. He is wealthy and has a team who work for him. I think the videos show the start of the dismantling process and these have been put out there to generate interest.
This may be an overly positive view but I hope I'm right. I do hope AWOT can get back to us with a real assessment of the future of this bird.
By: H87A-2
- 23rd April 2012 at 10:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Buz
Did not think there were any physical differences (at least visibible in the video) between a Curtiss built P40E to British orders and one to lend lease orders.
Mark
Hi Mark
There is one big difference between the H-87A Hawk series for the RAF and the P-40E-1CU's that is visable in the video, and its one of the best ways to tell the difference (apart from the mod on the baggage door that is) and thats the lights. The other is the pitot tube which I need to take a closer look at to see if its present.
Drop me a PM and I can explain if you require more.
By: paul178
- 23rd April 2012 at 10:34Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So who exactlly owns the aircraft now?
Is it the Eygptian Government, The RAF, The Americans if its lend lease or is it a case of finders keepers?
I hope its history comes to light and the pilot survived,if not I hope a sweep of the surrounding area would be undertaken so that the remains could/might be found and a funeral with all honours takes place.
By: Propstrike
- 23rd April 2012 at 10:34Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The internet works both ways, and it is likely that the 'finders' know about the great interest in their discovery, and with satellite connections may well be reading threads such as this one.
It has seeped into the public consciousness that ' Warbirds = big bucks ' so they are unlikely to damage/destroy their asset. Also, as the ones who found it ( if they are ) they will probably feel a sense of ownership/protection , and given its ultra remote and hostile environment, it is not available for every passing idiot to tear a lump out of it.
If they are discrete as to its whereabouts , and sensible, the outlook should be encouraging.
Posts: 6,015
By: Wyvernfan - 22nd April 2012 at 20:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No different to the UK then!
.
Posts: 28
By: Sutts - 22nd April 2012 at 20:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Really glad to see you on the forum Raphael. You really have caused quite a stir:D
I think most of us here are hoping to see this incredible find protected from the scrappers and vandals. Are you in any position to comment on the likely outcome please? Is the airframe in safe hands or have things got a little out of control since the find was reported to the authorities?
Would be great to hear you and your friend's view of the situation.
Thanks.
Posts: 1,318
By: DCK - 22nd April 2012 at 20:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
My thoughts at this moment goes out to the pilot of said aeroplane.
Whatever happened to him?
It's easy to get tangled up in the P-40, but let's not forget there was a person involved here. Hopefully he survived this, but who knows.
Posts: 442
By: Dobbins - 22nd April 2012 at 20:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How about trying to contact Wasalpan23, who uploaded the youtube footage?
Posts: 1,358
By: Skyraider3D - 22nd April 2012 at 20:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just the other day I was thinking how many of these will still be out there in the desert. Probably a good few but finding them is another story. Then seeing one was found and now being torn apart (indeed the gunsight ring is intact in video 1, torn off in video 2) is heartbreaking. Fantastic discovery but a very painful and frustrating couple of videos... :( If only they'd realise the value of it...
Posts: 256
By: Discendo Duces - 22nd April 2012 at 20:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well, actually, looking again at the first three photos, I have to say that they still look like a model P-40 in a diorama.
Obviously, the subsequent video evidence is compelling truth that they were genuine.
More importantly, I hope that the pilot had a happy outcome.
I can also tell by looking at the gentlemen in the videos that this precious 70 year old time capsule is in safe hands.
Not.
DD
Posts: 1,318
By: DCK - 22nd April 2012 at 20:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I still can't possibly see what you find which is so modellish or CGI'ish. I've looked at fakeish/modellish stuff on the net for 15 years and I could easily pick this out to be real. I was never in doubt.
But to be all negative, I agree on the last part. Horrible.
Posts: 256
By: Discendo Duces - 22nd April 2012 at 21:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
:)
Life's too short to argue on the internet.
Let's agree on the last part.
Posts: 485
By: Jayce - 22nd April 2012 at 21:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I hope to god the El Alamein museum has been made aware of it and is doing something. I get a sickening feeling it'll soon on its way to becoming razorblades if they don't move quickly... if it hasn't already. :(
Posts: 9,780
By: David Burke - 22nd April 2012 at 22:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think a major collector will aready be on the case with this.
Posts: 282
By: shepsair - 22nd April 2012 at 22:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
P40
I think it should be a case of swapsys.
Royal Air Force Museum donate there P40N to El Alamein Museum and some money (lottery or whatever), Egypt pay the finder a handsome finders fee and the complete time capsule RAF Kittyhawk goes to RAF Museum to sit next to Bf109G-2 Black 6.
Mark
Posts: 442
By: Dobbins - 22nd April 2012 at 22:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hendon is full of scrap as it is...
Posts: 832
By: ozjag - 22nd April 2012 at 23:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well have gone out on a limb way back on Page 1 to say it was real I am very glad it has been confirmed although it is very saddening to see how it is being treated, people walking all over it, yanking at parts, carrying bits off.
On the positive side hopefully the internet attention it has received on all of the forums has enabled the right people to see it and for it to become recovered quicker, the longer it stays out there now that it is known about the less of it will remain.
Paul
Posts: 1,914
By: mark_pilkington - 22nd April 2012 at 23:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No I'm sorry but I've been spoilt now in terms of the quality of evidence I require to follow treasure hunt threads, I now require 5 blurry stills and at least two you-tube videos.
Besides, having been convinced how well modellers can recreate such things to fool unsuspecting warbird enthusiasts, I am becoming quite suspicious that the Burma scans are actually detecting small metal model spitfires previously buried on site in match boxes at a depth of 40' by those nasty modellers simply to fool us again!
And of course if they are real they are only 20 late model spits with apparantly no combat service, you would wonder if they are worth the effort at all? (surely we have enough Spits already?)
(I'm still not sure the P-40 is real, I still suspect its done with stop motion animation and 1/72 scale figurines :) )
smiles
Mark Pilkington
Posts: 18,359
By: DazDaMan - 22nd April 2012 at 23:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Fantastic that we've now found out it's the real thing.
Hopefully it'll be recovered and the fate of the pilot revealed.....
Posts: 28
By: Sutts - 23rd April 2012 at 08:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some thoughts on the 2 videos......
The big guy at the end of vid 2 is the rich guy, the boss. My guess is he is associated with the oil drilling operation. From the look of him I think his interest extends to more than a few ebay sales.
The guy with the hood and his arm around the big guy is possibly AWOT's friend, the oil explorer who made the discovery and reported the find to someone - possibly the big guy.
Most of the guys in the 1st vid are wearing the same trousers with a stripe - employees of the big guy and have been tasked to move the aircraft.
The recovery is officially sanctioned - based on the army removing the ammo.
The guy on the wing at the end of the 2nd vid is removing a wing root access panel - this isn't souveniring behaviour - it suggests to me that they are trying to remove the wings the proper way.
The gunsight removal may be souveniring or could be an attempt to remove items that may be damaged in the recovery / lifting operation. In almost all recoveries from far off places things go missing - the 110s/Stuka/Fw190 from Russia all suffered in some way so a few pieces may well go astray.
The deep slash in front of the windscreen is new and quite worrying - why do such a thing and what tool would make such a mark with outward facing tears?
They have already made an attempt to remove the rudder (top hinge disconnected) and possibly the left elevator (access panel open).
From all this I think we have a guy in charge who knows the value of what he has. He is wealthy and has a team who work for him. I think the videos show the start of the dismantling process and these have been put out there to generate interest.
This may be an overly positive view but I hope I'm right. I do hope AWOT can get back to us with a real assessment of the future of this bird.
Posts: 31
By: H87A-2 - 23rd April 2012 at 10:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi MK959
Yes a lend lease aircraft, which would put her loss post late May 1942
Buz
Posts: 31
By: H87A-2 - 23rd April 2012 at 10:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Mark
There is one big difference between the H-87A Hawk series for the RAF and the P-40E-1CU's that is visable in the video, and its one of the best ways to tell the difference (apart from the mod on the baggage door that is) and thats the lights. The other is the pitot tube which I need to take a closer look at to see if its present.
Drop me a PM and I can explain if you require more.
Buz
Posts: 2,841
By: paul178 - 23rd April 2012 at 10:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So who exactlly owns the aircraft now?
Is it the Eygptian Government, The RAF, The Americans if its lend lease or is it a case of finders keepers?
I hope its history comes to light and the pilot survived,if not I hope a sweep of the surrounding area would be undertaken so that the remains could/might be found and a funeral with all honours takes place.
Posts: 3,902
By: Propstrike - 23rd April 2012 at 10:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The internet works both ways, and it is likely that the 'finders' know about the great interest in their discovery, and with satellite connections may well be reading threads such as this one.
It has seeped into the public consciousness that ' Warbirds = big bucks ' so they are unlikely to damage/destroy their asset. Also, as the ones who found it ( if they are ) they will probably feel a sense of ownership/protection , and given its ultra remote and hostile environment, it is not available for every passing idiot to tear a lump out of it.
If they are discrete as to its whereabouts , and sensible, the outlook should be encouraging.