Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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That's just not true. Remember the crew of the Lady Be Good.

While I can understand the concern about Flt Sgt Copping the probability of finding him must be zero and perhaps it's time to move on.

Regards

Profile picture for user xtangomike

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I think it should be remembered how much effort was put in by the US military to find and recover the bodies of the crew members of the Lady be Good.

Quote Wikipedia
In February 1960, the United States Army conducted a formal search for the remains of the airmen, and five were found. Finding evidence that three other crew members had continued walking northward to seek help, the exploration concluded their bodies were likely buried beneath sand dunes. When the news media reported on the crashed plane and the five recovered bodies, an expanded joint effort of the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Army called "Operation Climax" took place in May 1960, using a C-130 cargo plane and two Army Bell H-13 helicopters. A British Petroleum exploration crew found the remains of Staff Sgt. Shelley on May 12, 1960, 38 kilometres (24 mi) northwest of the five bodies that were initially found, and a U.S. helicopter found Tech. Sgt. Ripslinger on May 17, 1960. His remains were located 42 kilometres (26 mi) northwest of Shelley.[2] These two bodies were the only ones found during Operation Climax. The body of Lt. Woravka was later found by another British Petroleum oil exploration crew in August 1960, and his remains were then recovered by the U.S. Air Force.

Is it possible to think that the MOD could spend all that time and effort...and still not find Flt Sgt Copping?

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Of course they might not find him, but to say he will not be found is not a helpful approach.

I wouldn't call a pair of helicopters and a C-130 a massive search effort either.

It is definately not a reason not to try and find him.

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Mark -I don't think the P-40 is in any way as important to the British people as the Olympics ! . We have a serious health problem over here with obesity -anything that encourages people to participate in sport is vital at the moment!

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David, Your right, apart from what you say, we have a younger generation now. Last night, I went to my wifes sisters 60th Birthday party in a pub, sitting next to me was one of her sons, aged 37. He has a very good job in "The City", and has the latest mobile phone. As we sat awaiting the meal, I flicked through my mail, and saw an update on Bletchley Park, I commented to her son what I had just read, and he asked me, what Bletchley Park was, I explained was it's purpose was during the War, and the enigma machine, he had never heard of either:eek: They are only interested today, which our generation wouldn't give a hoot about.

So expecting the general public today, I can see why they are not concerned about the P40, ask them what a P40 is, and they would no doubt it was some sort of Form, like a P45.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

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P40

The terrain where the LBG crew were located and the area where the P40 is located is totally different.

LBG crew were located in a very hard/flat landscape where the outlines of the remains could be ascertained.

The terrain where the P40 is rock and sand and further away rocky areas. Due to the sandy areas located between rocky strands, a body could be buried and not visible. I think it would be ni on impossible to locate his remains unless he is located by shear luck.

Bare in mind also, a single member of LBG's crew is still missing! Think a group is easier to locate than a single individual.

regards

Mark

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I am a little unsure as to the direction of this -were human remains not found fairly close to the location of the aircraft a while ago?

As for the efforts to recover human remains - I am a firm believer that a greater clarity and possibly more forthright approach needs to be adopted towards the recovery of human remains.
We have the instance of the two Corsairs in the U.S that contain the remains of two FAA aviators. Their location is known and I find it shocking
that efforts have not been made by the Mod to recover the aircraft and give the unfortunate crews a decent burial. I understand that if your a sailor the
is always going to be an understanding that your end might be a watery grave but I don't think that an aircraft should come within the same remit.

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Next Generation

Listening to Radio 4 this morning, the story was about the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima. The only survivor of the crew is the navigator. A teacher at a high school in America introduced him as a veteran of World War Eleven. Pretty sad.

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SeaDog.

When you have teachers who come out with stupid remarks as such, what hope for the youth of today?.
I hope he/she got a right dressing down.

Jim.
Lincoln .7

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Comrade Jim,don't you mean "The Great Patriotic War":)

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SeaDog.

When you have teachers who come out with stupid remarks as such, what hope for the youth of today?.
I hope he/she got a right dressing down.

Jim.
Lincoln .7

Two things.

First. My oldest daughter is a teacher. She works her tail off teaching her kids. How bout we don't generalize comments about teachers. Good ones don't make news.

Second: In the end it's the parents job to make sure their kids have a good understanding of their history and heritage. A teacher can only plant the seeds. If it's not encouraged at home, why would the kid care?

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Listening to Radio 4 this morning, the story was about the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima. The only survivor of the crew is the navigator. A teacher at a high school in America introduced him as a veteran of World War Eleven.

This is an ancient urban legend. Been around for years. Not true. Then again, if it's on the Internet, it MUST be true, right?

Go back to sleep, guys.

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I am a little unsure as to the direction of this -were human remains not found fairly close to the location of the aircraft a while ago?

As for the efforts to recover human remains - I am a firm believer that a greater clarity and possibly more forthright approach needs to be adopted towards the recovery of human remains.
We have the instance of the two Corsairs in the U.S that contain the remains of two FAA aviators. Their location is known and I find it shocking that efforts have not been made by the Mod to recover the aircraft and give the unfortunate crews a decent burial. I understand that if your a sailor there is always going to be an understanding that your end might be a watery grave but I don't think that an aircraft should come within the same remit.

In the case of the Sebago Lake Corsairs, the MOD filed a request with a US court that the court ban removal of the remains... even though there was an organization willing to do it free of charge and even if next-of-kin permission had been obtained.

So the MOD not only made no effort themselves, but blocked anyone else from doing that.

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Teachers

Mr. Johnson,

Without getting off the track of this thread, I was a teacher (math and latin) and my sister is a teacher. I have the utmost respect for teachers and believe they are well underpaid relative to the importance they have in our society. They are in my opinion more important than investment bankers to the future of our country. But just like all professions there are some that are better than others. It bothers me that we let some teachers teach without the proper skills or knowledge.

And I don't believe that it is a parent's job to teach history or many other hard subjects. Just think of the misinformation that would abound.

Please forgive me for straying.

Profile picture for user shepsair

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10 years 9 months

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P40

still straying. My wife gave up being a banker/head hunter for 20 years to return to Uni and do her PGCE and become a primary school teacher. (10-11 year olds).

I use to joke about 9-3 working and all the holidays. She is in school at 7am and home at 5pm and then works between 7-10pm for five nights. One day a weekend between 10am and 7pm prepping for the next week. Basically a 70 hour week.

She does it not for the low pay but to make a difference and she does it very well and it is worth it when her students and parents acknowledge that at the end of the year before they go to secondary school.

I agree parental input is critical. Unfortunately some see it only as child care.

Due to my interest, she surprises quite a few of her students with her knowledge of WWII and WWII aircraft.

Mark

As for the P40 - good news I hope.

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Desert P-40

Hi all. I'm a newbie here but have been following the developments on the 260 Sqdn. P-40 on Hyperscale and Large Scale Planes since day 1. Looks like Qatarra has the most up to date info and I was wondering if there have been any new developments. Fingers crossed it will end up at the RAF Museum.

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Welcome to the forums John

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7 years 11 months

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Welcome to the forums John

Thanks Tony!

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Mark -I don't think the P-40 is in any way as important to the British people as the Olympics ! . We have a serious health problem over here with obesity -anything that encourages people to participate in sport is vital at the moment!

(Without diverting the debate from the important issue of Copping and the P-40 - )

David, Australia got sucked into funding elite sports in the belief Olympic success encourages people to participate in sport, recent funding has been in the order of $170M per annum, our gold medals apparantly cost $3M each.

Our Olympic Committee attacked a recent report that recommended we redirect the funding into grass roots sporting rather than elite sports, claiming instead we had to spend more and more to win gold and punch above our weight. Instead, all this elite funding simply encourages people to sit on their couches or in pubs, and watch other people exercise!

Recent articles in Australia questioning this level of funding given the reduced medal tally have reported:

what little research has been done - none of it by the AOC - suggests the Olympics have no significant impact on participation rates, beyond short-lived spikes in attendance at programs such as Little Athletics. Indeed, one study by the Australian centre for Olympic studies at the University of Technology, Sydney, showed that participation by people aged 15-plus in 14 out of 21 Olympic sports decreased after the Sydney Olympics.

Dont let the conga line suck the UK into an "Arms" (& Legs) Race for Olympic surpremacy.

regards

Mark Pilkington

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Listening to British athletes about their inspiration -nine times out of ten it seems that watching previous Olympic successes inspired them to take part.
We have spent vast fortunes in the U.K since 1966 to try and win a football world cup to no avail ! I wager most people will view lottery money spent on Olympic sport as money well spent!